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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018386 08/27/20 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucubrate
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
What's the point of posting an obviously biased video?
.

Because there are many owners of both pianos here, as well as potential buyers. I thought some might find the video informative &/or a catalyst for discussion

Based on the replies so far - That seems to be the case


~Lucubrate
The first five posters said and realized the video was biased.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3018388 08/27/20 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lucubrate
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
What's the point of posting an obviously biased video?
.

Because there are many owners of both pianos here, as well as potential buyers. I thought some might find the video informative &/or a catalyst for discussion

Based on the replies so far - That seems to be the case


~Lucubrate
The first five posters said and realized the video was biased.
Well its not overwhelming! I have heard FAR more biased opinions here and elsewhere.
He gives a great deal of credit to both manufacturers ,Yamaha as well.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3018394 08/27/20 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The first five posters said and realized the video was biased.

I prefaced the video with “FWIW”

Regardless, My reason still stands - Some have found the video informative &/or it’s been a catalyst for discussion

Perhaps You should leave the moderating up to the Real Moderators


~Lucubrate


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“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3018425 08/27/20 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
What's the point of posting an obviously biased video?

Notice how he says Yamaha uses "synthetic plastic" in part of their actions but when referring to Kawai he never mentions "plastic" but says things like "ABS" or just "synthetic". When salesmen are not really honest or upfront for me it's a turn off. Just one of many examples.

Interestingly enough, one of the main turn offs for me when comparing Yamaha vs Kawai personally was exactly the lack of the sense of "honesty" from my local Yamaha salesmen. Talks of Yamaha's "all wood action" vs Kawai's "plastic parts" was certainly part of it.

Not trying to defend Stu but i do feel there is a bit of a branding issue from Yamaha. Kawai embraced their use of composites and built the marketing around it. Whereas Yamaha is almost trying to hide their use of anything other than wood for their action. I know from my own searching that Yamaha at least at some point used a composite jack in their upright actions, but the details are not transparent, especially when Yamaha salesman are telling me it's always been an all wooden action.

The closest thing that I see on Yamaha's official site now is the mention of "The action is a complex mechanism composed of wood, metallic pins, felt, and other materials." and "The action is made almost entirely from wood, and the standard for precision in cutting and milling is 5/100 of a millimeter." I don't really care if Yamaha uses "plastics" but I would appreciate some more transparency upfront like you mentioned.

Anyways, I like Stu's videos for the same reason I watch any piano (or car, or mountain bike, or anything) overview. They are relatively well produced and I get some interesting specs for different piano brands. Really, every brand comparison I've come across, dealer or not, piano or not has been biased to some degree. Nothing particularly surprising there.

Ironically, I think the first video I ever saw from Stu was an old pricing breakdown on used Yamaha U1s that never mentioned anything about Kawai.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
rkzhao #3018431 08/27/20 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rkzhao
The closest thing that I see on Yamaha's official site now is the mention of "The action is a complex mechanism composed of wood, metallic pins, felt, and other materials." and "The action is made almost entirely from wood, and the standard for precision in cutting and milling is 5/100 of a millimeter." I don't really care if Yamaha uses "plastics" but I would appreciate some more transparency upfront like you mentioned.

If that emphasis is yours, that makes Yamaha's statement at least objectively true. If you don't care that Yamaha uses plastics, then why raise the issue? They haven't lied, they haven't misled.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018440 08/27/20 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mcontraveos
If that emphasis is yours, that makes Yamaha's statement at least objectively true. If you don't care that Yamaha uses plastics, then why raise the issue? They haven't lied, they haven't misled.

I'm not sure I follow your point. My post was more responding to the sentiment that mentioning Yamaha's use of "synthetic plastic" was somehow particularly biased dishonest sales tactics. Just pointing out that it may be just in part to different marketing tactics from the two brands.

Of course Yamaha (or Kawai or any company) isn't going to outright lie. that would just invite lawsuits.

Now if you're saying that my local salesmen claiming Yamaha all wooden actions as a main selling point isn't misleading, well I guess we have different definitions of misleading.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3018459 08/27/20 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Notice how he says Yamaha uses "synthetic plastic" in part of their actions but when referring to Kawai he never mentions "plastic" but says things like "ABS" or just "synthetic". When salesmen are not really honest or upfront for me it's a turn off. Just one of many examples.
ABS is a type of plastic, so arguing that ABS is better than plastic is like arguing that water is better than liquid. I've never seen any identification by Yamaha of what type of plastic they do use, assuming they do use some. It could be ABS or it could be something else. So I don't see why referring to it generically as plastic in any way diminishes the material or the brand. Even products claiming construction from carbon fiber are not pure carbon fiber because it's not very good for making anything on its own. It's combined with some other material, most often some kind of plastic, so it can be used for things like airplane wings, tennis rackets, and piano actions. I would quibble with his use of "synthetic plastic", since without knowing what kind of plastic it is, it's not possible to know if it's synthetic or not.


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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
MarkL #3018480 08/27/20 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkL
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Notice how he says Yamaha uses "synthetic plastic" in part of their actions but when referring to Kawai he never mentions "plastic" but says things like "ABS" or just "synthetic". When salesmen are not really honest or upfront for me it's a turn off. Just one of many examples.
ABS is a type of plastic, so arguing that ABS is better than plastic is like arguing that water is better than liquid.
When the average person thinks of plastic they think of the average plastic objects they're familiar with. They think of it as flimsy and cheap. But ABS sounds like space age high tech material. That's why those trying to discredit Kawai quality referred to their actions as being made of plastic for so long. That's why the Kawai dealer in the video always says Kawai uses ABS or synthetic but says Yamaha uses synthetic plastic.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018507 08/27/20 09:49 PM
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Ooooh he put the Yamaha SX series in line with the Kawai GX, and he put the Yamaha CX series in line with the Kawai GL series, he's not playing ball nicely there!

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018509 08/27/20 09:55 PM
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Can someone explain to me what a higher tension scale design or a lower tension scale design is? Honestly I hear this said quite often and it's never actually been explained to me adequately, or what difference it makes.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018521 08/28/20 12:33 AM
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I just saw a movie (The Wizard of Lies ) about Bernie Madoff .
There was scene in a restaurant (social setting ), a jazz band performing super cool music .The piano was.......no not a Yamaha or Steinways,but a Kawai.
I am not sure that is complimentary or not .,I would say not .

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lady Bird #3018529 08/28/20 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I just saw a movie (The Wizard of Lies ) about Bernie Madoff .
There was scene in a restaurant (social setting ), a jazz band performing super cool music .The piano was.......no not a Yamaha or Steinways,but a Kawai.
I am not sure that is complimentary or not .,I would say not .
A weird coincidence., The movie is a compelling story of a brilliant,schrewd sociopath who ruined people.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lady Bird #3018537 08/28/20 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I just saw a movie (The Wizard of Lies ) about Bernie Madoff .
There was scene in a restaurant (social setting ), a jazz band performing super cool music .The piano was.......no not a Yamaha or Steinways,but a Kawai.
I am not sure that is complimentary or not .,I would say not .
A weird coincidence., The movie is a compelling story of a brilliant,schrewd sociopath who ruined people.


Seems like you may be inferring way too much from the use of any piano brand in one restaurant scene. To infer that use was complimentary or derogatory is quite a stretch.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3018578 08/28/20 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
That's why the Kawai dealer in the video always says Kawai uses ABS or synthetic but says Yamaha uses synthetic plastic.
I'm unsuccessful finding out what specific kind of plastic Yamaha uses, if any, in their actions. If you can find that information I will post it in the youtube comments so the fellow can include more specific information in his presentations. If it's not possible to find out what material Yamaha is using, I don't see what choice there is other than to use the general term which is plastic.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
MarkL #3018582 08/28/20 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkL
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
That's why the Kawai dealer in the video always says Kawai uses ABS or synthetic but says Yamaha uses synthetic plastic.
I'm unsuccessful finding out what specific kind of plastic Yamaha uses, if any, in their actions. If you can find that information I will post it in the youtube comments so the fellow can include more specific information in his presentations. If it's not possible to find out what material Yamaha is using, I don't see what choice there is other than to use the general term which is plastic.
You missed the point. He calls it "plastic" because that term implies some cheap/flimsy material to most. Terms of like "ABS" or "synthetic" don't have that connotation. He is using against Yamaha the same kind of wording that those trashing Kawai used to use or sometimes still use against Kawai.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018588 08/28/20 09:45 AM
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Personally, I look forward to great debates on carbon fiber vs wood in the acoustic piano industry.
But I do love the hint of wood when I open the fly lid on my Estonia. There’s nothing so fine as waking up to fresh coffee and opening your piano in the morning. Every bit as good as new car and fresh road smell.

Last edited by j&j; 08/28/20 09:50 AM.

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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018590 08/28/20 09:48 AM
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In *some* Yamaha and Kemble uprights, the jack is ABS. This is only in the lower series uprights, like the Kemble Oxford model or the Yamaha B-series, and honestly these pianos hold up pretty well over time anyway. I taught in a music department that had quite a few Kemble uprights, Cambridge 10s I believe which are basically identical to the Yamaha B1 except they have a solid spruce soundboard and were made in the UK, but the design is virtually identical, and honestly they work fine even after 15 years.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3018611 08/28/20 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by MarkL
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
That's why the Kawai dealer in the video always says Kawai uses ABS or synthetic but says Yamaha uses synthetic plastic.
I'm unsuccessful finding out what specific kind of plastic Yamaha uses, if any, in their actions. If you can find that information I will post it in the youtube comments so the fellow can include more specific information in his presentations. If it's not possible to find out what material Yamaha is using, I don't see what choice there is other than to use the general term which is plastic.
You missed the point. He calls it "plastic" because that term implies some cheap/flimsy material to most. Terms of like "ABS" or "synthetic" don't have that connotation. He is using against Yamaha the same kind of wording that those trashing Kawai used to use or sometimes still use against Kawai.
I could only imagine the things he hears about the plastic in Kawais from nearby Yamaha dealers. Probably tired of going high when they go low. Not all mind you but apparently there was a reason for doing this video and most of his videos don’t have a hint of attack on other piano manufacturers. He’s tired of it just like anyone else would be. If there is the so called plastic in Yamaha products as there are in kawais good for him to call them out on it USING the same terminology they like to use.


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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018614 08/28/20 10:42 AM
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In the end who really cares they are both excellent pianos.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3018622 08/28/20 10:57 AM
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I think this is basically making a mountain out of a molehill. Surely, there are more interesting discussions that can be had?

But I get it, people are bored and there’s not very much new happening in the piano world... whistle

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/28/20 10:59 AM.

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