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Thanks for the info Kawai James. Keep them coming!

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Originally Posted by Martinez
Originally Posted by Granyala
I can understand most people quitting after a year or two. Seems to be the time when you hit the first wall and the rapid early improvements come to an abrupt halt.
I started half a year ago and I am hitting walls every week...

Ah... now I know why they say one should always leave a little room between one's piano and the wall. :-)

On a more serious note: I know what you mean. But isn't it fun to realize that those "walls" are, in fact, moveable? That's how progress is made.


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Moveable walls, like glass ceilings, are fairly complicated and expensive structures; not to mention, impractical. I wonder if it would be easier to simply move the piano rather than moving the wall? crazy

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think marketing people know that pianos sell for sound, appearance, prestige, classical elegance ... and sometimes for modern techno sound, depending on the market tier.

But I don't think many people go into a music store or piano dealer asking about processors and RAM.
Indeed, bigger better processors and RAM would do nothing for a piano.
Adding more of those would be like adding sand to the Sahara. There's just no need.

Samples. Bigger samples. That's what's needed.

And better actions ... well, we have those already in the high-end. It would be nice to have such in the midrange pianos.

But computer techno under the hood doesn't sell pianos.

This is blatantly untrue lol. Faster and more RAM would would go hand-in-hand with bigger samples. Better processors would allow more effects to be done at once, better effects, and of course higher polyphony, among other things. And this completely ignores an entire type of digital piano - modeled. Accurate modelling isn't remotely possible on the hardware on the market right now. I respect a lot of what you say on here about pianos but saying "bigger better processors and RAM would do nothing for a piano" is just technological ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Kougeru
This is blatantly untrue lol. Faster and more RAM would would go hand-in-hand with bigger samples. Better processors would allow more effects to be done at once, better effects, and of course higher polyphony, among other things. And this completely ignores an entire type of digital piano - modeled. Accurate modelling isn't remotely possible on the hardware on the market right now. I respect a lot of what you say on here about pianos but saying "bigger better processors and RAM would do nothing for a piano" is just technological ignorance.

Not to speak for Mac, but I read that meaning that *marketing-wise,* highlighting things like CPU speed, RAM, etc., wouldn't help sales, because a typical DP buyer wouldn't understand or care for these details. I think we all agree that better hardware will absolutely allow for better simulation of acoustic pianos smile


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Of course it's not just a matter of bigger samples and their number per note (velocity layers, release samples, etc.). Current sample-based piano engines need processing power to create resonances, reverbs, spatial effects, more polyphony, etc... The higher the number and quality of the effects, the greater the processing power required. And of course modeled piano engines need much more processing power, because they need to create the piano sound from scratch.

But it's true that most DP buyers don't care for the specs of the hardware inside their instruments... And better hardware specs don't necessarily mean better sound. IMHO, after the number and quality of the samples (if it's a sample-based engine), the software design and implementation of the piano engine it's the most important factor. The hardware has just to be powerful enough for the needs of the software.

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
[quote=Granyala]IMHO a trick to not stopping learning piano playing is to learn pieces that you like very much and that are just a little more advanced than your current skills. Motivation is very important. wink

Yeah.. would be nice if such pieces exist.
The kind of music I like is years beyond my skills. laugh

Still, my teacher manages to find pieces I somewhat like and that are somewhat more realistic in nature compared to those that I would bring.
What annoys me most about the learning process is that "working hard" does not seem to be effective. You repeat the same things and movements ad nauseum for very little real world effect.

What exacerbates the issue for me is probably that cerebral learning has always been very easy for me. Even the whole music shabang is easy as far as the brain/understanding is concerned yet getting the signal to the hands in time is the problem. Sometimes it feels as if these darn things are attached to another body and do what they want. ugh.

Last edited by Granyala; 08/26/20 12:17 AM.

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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by magicpiano
[quote=Granyala]IMHO a trick to not stopping learning piano playing is to learn pieces that you like very much and that are just a little more advanced than your current skills. Motivation is very important. wink

Yeah.. would be nice if such pieces exist.
The kind of music I like is years beyond my skills. laugh

Still, my teacher manages to find pieces I somewhat like and that are somewhat more realistic in nature compared to those that I would bring.
What annoys me most about the learning process is that "working hard" does not seem to be effective. You repeat the same things and movements ad nauseum for very little real world effect.

What exacerbates the issue for me is probably that cerebral learning has always been very easy for me. Even the whole music shabang is easy as far as the brain/understanding is concerned yet getting the signal to the hands in time is the problem. Sometimes it feels as if these darn things are attached to another body and do what they want. ugh.

Close the book. Play by ear. Hands will follow. Put on a uTube tune you like and jam along. Improvise. Get out of the box.


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It's taken me more than a few years to realize you've got to spend LOTS of time on technique.


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August is over soon. Has there been an official announcement yet? Not to my knowledge, at least. We may have to have this thread's title updated soon. :-)


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Originally Posted by 9190
Yes, there is some news. For example, some discussion threads for future models have been removed from this forum. )

A thread discussing upcoming models was removed from the forum?

I'd understand that action if the thread poster was the one directly breaking their NDA, however, if information was posted elsewhere (for example the UK distributor KawaiJames referred to) and then discussed here and that thread was then deleted, then I'm quite appalled.

Can someone clear up exactly what happened here as I'm questioning my membership of this forum based on what I _think_ happened, and given that might not be the case, I'd like to be sure before I come to any incorrect conclusions.


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Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
Close the book. Play by ear. Hands will follow. Put on a uTube tune you like and jam along. Improvise. Get out of the box.
Interesting suggestion, I have a lot of pieces I like but no sheet music available. Always shied away from playing by ear because I never managed to find a point of entry.

How do you guys even hear a chord properly?

@Mickey_: Hmm aren't new models usually presented in October/November or sth? August seems a wee bit too soon for official announcements.


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Originally Posted by Mickey_
August is over soon. Has there been an official announcement yet? Not to my knowledge, at least. We may have to have this thread's title updated soon. :-)

But the topic does not specify which year August, so everything is in order. )

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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by Mickey_
August is over soon. Has there been an official announcement yet? Not to my knowledge, at least. We may have to have this thread's title updated soon. :-)

But the topic does not specify which year August, so everything is in order. )

...models in August 2021


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I heard Octember 2022! grin

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Originally Posted by Gary001
A thread discussing upcoming models was removed from the forum?

I'd understand that action if the thread poster was the one directly breaking their NDA, however, if information was posted elsewhere (for example the UK distributor KawaiJames referred to) and then discussed here and that thread was then deleted, then I'm quite appalled.
Strict NDA interpretation is not relevant here IMHO. For apparent, unintentional mistakes, people's jobs and reputation could be at stake. Given the global pandemic, maybe these factors take precedence to early leaks of future consumer goods. In this light, it is not difficult to make a reasonable case for removing the thread.

Originally Posted by Gary001
Can someone clear up exactly what happened here as I'm questioning my membership of this forum based on what I _think_ happened, and given that might not be the case, I'd like to be sure before I come to any incorrect conclusions.
I don't know and don't see any information posted here. I couldn't care less, but appreciate the thread deletion could be troublesome for others.

PW has a lot of helpful members and lots of information, so don't leave.

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Originally Posted by Gary001
Originally Posted by 9190
Yes, there is some news. For example, some discussion threads for future models have been removed from this forum. )

A thread discussing upcoming models was removed from the forum?

I'd understand that action if the thread poster was the one directly breaking their NDA, however, if information was posted elsewhere (for example the UK distributor KawaiJames referred to) and then discussed here and that thread was then deleted, then I'm quite appalled.

Can someone clear up exactly what happened here as I'm questioning my membership of this forum based on what I _think_ happened, and given that might not be the case, I'd like to be sure before I come to any incorrect conclusions.

The thread contained a direct image (I believe was hosted by this site) that showed the brochure in question. Likewise, that thread was the first Google result when searching for "Kawai ES920". I'm sure Kawai caught on and asked them to remove it, as they did with the UK distributor.

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That doesn't sit well with me. If the original poster had nothing to do with originally leaking the information, I don't agree it was right to delete the thread _unless_ pianoworld asked them.

Don't get me wrong, I understand this is PianoWorld's forum, their rules and they have no requirement to seek permission to delete a post. However, it sounds like what was posted was piano related and wasn't illegal, I don't think deleting that posters thread was a good call.

If that action is not an exception but the standard way PianoWorld have dealt with cases in the past, or intend to deal with similar cases in the future, I'm out.

Last edited by Gary001; 08/26/20 03:37 PM.

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While I don't see a clear direct legal or contractual issue here, I suspect that you are correct in that PW voluntarily close to delete (or comply with a request to delete) the information, perhaps to retain good relations with a manufacturer. That's their call to make, and if it's the line in the sand for you, then that's your prerogative as well. But granted, it's not frequent that these kinds of leaks happen, so if you choose to stay, I think you may find that the good things here outweigh the bad?


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Originally Posted by Granyala
Interesting suggestion, I have a lot of pieces I like but no sheet music available. Always shied away from playing by ear because I never managed to find a point of entry.

How do you guys even hear a chord properly?

I would suggest you post this question as a separate OT topic (it may interest others) or in the adult beginners forum.

That said... Are you familiar with music harmonization? If not, that would be my starting point. Problem is it is very easy to get lost if you go to the internet. I suggest you take a look at Karen Ramirez's videos on "playing by ear".

Last edited by EVC2017; 08/26/20 04:31 PM.

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