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I want to know how do you count the rhythm of the 2 photos in the link below? How do you do it in your head and also how do you play it with the metronome?
[img]https://ibb.co/K6Dc6wT https://ibb.co/LRkKZY9[/img]

I wouldn't worry about it. These examples look as if they were written by someone who is trying to be clever but doesn't know much about music.

They are both notated incorrectly.

I'm assuming the first example is in 4/4.

Who knows what the time signature of the second example is. The rhythm of the last three semiquavers (16th notes) is ridiculous.

Tell me I'm wrong!!

When I am trying to figure out tricky rhythms, I break down all the beats to the smallest or second smallest note. In your first example, I would give the 16th note one beat; the 8th note two beats and the half note 8 beats. Daa-Da-Daa-Da-Daaaaaaaa. I would probably break down the second example by 16th's too but you could also do it as 32nd notes. I know this isn't the conventional way of doing it, but it always works for me. Once I "get" the rhythm, I speed it up and start counting according to the time signature.

Actually, Deborah, what you do IS the way we were taught in our Solfege course in 1966 at Boston University SFA. The books we used were all the latest, too...Paris Conservatory 1890ish.

We were taught to subdivide to the smallest interval required by a rhythm. This subdividing thing also helps with differences in rhythmic articulation in executing triplets vs dotted note patterns more accurately.

For the first example the OP posted, I agree the notation is bizarre. That said, I would subdivide to the sixteenth note level.

As for working with the metronome, ultimately I would want to feel the pulse of the underlying quarter notes and play it that way. I would first play with each tic of the device = sixteenth-note, all the way up to 208 or the highest the metronome could go. By then I believe I would be able to switch to quarter notes, if not, eighth-notes are the next round, and so on, until the quarter notes. NB: even though there is a quarter note pulse, one would STILL SUBDIVIDE by sixteenths while feeling the quarter note pulse underneath.

Never seen a score look like that first example but if I had to count it, I'd do

1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4 e and a
With the 5 notes played on each of the bolded counts. The rest would occupy the "and a" at the end. With the left hand as normal on 1, 2, 3, 4. Which as the poster above notes (pun intended) is subdividing into 16ths, the smallest note used in the measure.

Not tried that with the 2nd example, but I expect the same should apply.

Really! I thought I invented it! I've always seen it done by following the time signature's beats, which never worked for me. I wonder about polyrhythms. I've always used math. I draw little lines between the staves and play it slowly until it clicks.

I would also do it the way you mentioned.

Would anyone care to follow up on my post earlier on? That these examples are actually incorrectly notated.

The way the notes are grouped makes counting impossible except at some micro 1/16 note level. And when you do this, does it actually make any musical sense?

Assuming a time signature of 4/4, this would be correct.

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=3613A3D76AF76F48&id=3613A3D76AF76F48%21158&parId=3613A3D76AF76F48%21134&o=OneUp

I can't make this work better. Copy the address into a browser and you should get to the image.

This link doesn’t work for me, even when copied and pasted.

[img]http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/galleries/3015716.html#Post3015716[/img]

How about this?

Perfect - thanks

I don’t understand counting 1 e and a for the sixteenth notes. Like when you are counting 1 e and a you have to speed up And count fast right? Cause if you just count at normal pace it would be played like a quaver note?

Do people actually count in their heads or just feel the rhythm?

The 1 e and a is just used (at least in my case) during slow play when I'm figuring out an unfamiliar rhythm. There's a limit to what tempo you can use it at, just as there's a limit with 1 and 2 and. At some point I get a feel for the rhythm and stop counting and just feel the beats.

I agree with Charles though that the notation is weird. Although I do think it's countable and it adds up to 4 full beats with 2x16 + 2x8 + 8th (rest) and 2. That said, it's weird and Charles' rewritten example is instantly obvious how to count, whilst the original even now I had to sit and think it through again.

For me, it depends on the complexity of the notes.

No, just count with a steady pulse. Look here:

Pulse: 16th__16th__16th__16th__16th__16th__16th__16th__
Count: 1_____e_____and___a_____2_____e_____and___a_____
Notes: E_____-_____D_____D_____-_____C_____D_____-_____

Actually if you look at that measure in the first fragment you may notice that the notes of the right hand are graphically interleaved properly with the notes of the left hand. It was done to ease sight reading and it should be your main guide when playing it.

My limited understanding (memory) of theory tells me that this is the correct way to notate the timing of this snippet.



In 4/4 time, you can't have a half note beginning on beat 2-1/2; so tying the dotted quarter on the beat to the eighth-note before seems right, to me. Tying the last sixteenth-note of the first beat to the first sixteenth of the second note is done for the same reason. If a note does not start on the beat but is held past the beat, the beat itself has to be notated.

Am I right?

Regards,

Concerning the four final 16th notes in the second fragment you need to count with a pulse of 32nd's there. Or you can use a metronome.

Pulse: 32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__32nd__
Count: 2_____e_____and___a_____3_____e_____and___a_____4_____e_____and___a_____
Notes: (pause)_____C_____-_____C_____-_____-_____D_____-_____C_____-_____-_____

It's only needed until you feel and remember the rhythm. This rhythm is very simple, you'll get it very quickly. It's a good exercise. And at a faster tempo the difference will be hardly noticable, so don't obsess over it.

^

I spent several minutes trying to make it look nice.