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NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
#3015244 08/18/20 02:36 PM
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Item for auction here.

The piano is described in no uncertain terms as being from Hamburg, but to my layman's eyes, there are lots of signs pointing towards this being an NY model D, possibly with an aftermarket "Made in Germany" badge.

In corresponding with the seller, they claim this a "hybrid" piano, some result of effort on both NY and Hamburg factories.

I haven't heard of such a thing, and wanted to know if someone could vouch for the seller's claims.

Thank you.

Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015250 08/18/20 03:05 PM
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Did the seller offer any details about what, specifically, was "hybridized?" Because from pictures it appears that the seller is grossly misleading the public - as that piano appears to be a standard NY D and most certainly did NOT come out of the Hamburg factory.


Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015251 08/18/20 03:20 PM
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Do Hamburg S&S have square arms, satin lacquer finishes, and "accelerated action" stickers? Are CD pianos serial numbers typically painted over that carelessly?


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
adamp88 #3015252 08/18/20 03:23 PM
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Seller did mention that they thought hybridization was something done in the late-1980s to 1990s. Other than that, no further information about it as it pertains to this piano, unfortunately.

Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
terminaldegree #3015257 08/18/20 03:31 PM
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Right, those were my thoughts, too -- the CD serial number looking especially slapdash.

Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015280 08/18/20 04:32 PM
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That totally bogus looking serial number would make me run far away from this instrument. You can actually see the real serial number peeking through the crappy paint job.


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015281 08/18/20 04:36 PM
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Here are my quick thoughts.

I would have looked at the photos and called it a NY D.

The seller could have little to no knowledge of the piano. What DOES ring true is that in the late 1980's and early 1990's, American S&S Ds and Bs were being outfitted with Renner actions as new pianos. This was because the NY actions were having so many QC issues. This piano appears to have Renner shanks. I have no idea about the CD number sloppily applied over what looks like could have been a serial number.

...it is also possible that the seller knows more than nothing.

That is all I can tell you from those photos.


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015320 08/18/20 06:39 PM
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I just cracked myself up seeing both Henry Z. Steinway's and David Helfgott's signatures on the plate.

Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
Rich Galassini #3015457 08/19/20 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Here are my quick thoughts.

I would have looked at the photos and called it a NY D.

The seller could have little to no knowledge of the piano. What DOES ring true is that in the late 1980's and early 1990's, American S&S Ds and Bs were being outfitted with Renner actions as new pianos. This was because the NY actions were having so many QC issues. This piano appears to have Renner shanks.

I think Rich has it right. This is by far the most likely scenario - it's a NY D with a Renner action. That hardly makes it a Hamburg piano, though. The main performance instrument in the performing arts center adjacent to the university here was rebuilt a while back and had the action changed from the typical NY accelerated action to the standard Renner action. It's still a NY D.


Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015484 08/19/20 08:32 AM
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Why it has to (or tried to) be a Hamburg if NY was really better?


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015543 08/19/20 10:45 AM
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Buyer beware...if this was a political ad, it would be a boast or exaggeration, not a lie. wink


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015547 08/19/20 10:54 AM
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I believe there was a time when the New York equipment was being refurbished and Hamburg parts were being used in the actions in New York. But I would not trust what anyone says about a used piano. You need to verify. You also need to decide whether it matters.


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015551 08/19/20 11:14 AM
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Only other piano people would know that there’s two different Steinway factories.


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015552 08/19/20 11:17 AM
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Only Steinway fans and potential buyers really care if it’s NY or Hamburg.


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
terminaldegree #3015614 08/19/20 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by adamp88
Did the seller offer any details about what, specifically, was "hybridized?" Because from pictures it appears that the seller is grossly misleading the public - as that piano appears to be a standard NY D and most certainly did NOT come out of the Hamburg factory.


Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Do Hamburg S&S have square arms, satin lacquer finishes, and "accelerated action" stickers? Are CD pianos serial numbers typically painted over that carelessly?


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3015645 08/19/20 04:04 PM
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There is in Alabama University Tuscaloosa an American D with a Hamburg action and dampers. The Hamburg damper heads are shaped differently. These are New York damper heads, it's a New York cabinet, but I couldn't tell you if it was a New York action. It will be a New York soundboard (they're thinner than the Hamburg ones especially at that time), and a New York hexagrip pin block.

Hamburgs don't have these patents listed on them, but the Made In Hamburg badge is a bit strange. It could be stuck on after, or it could be that the frame was destined for Hamburg and found its way to New York.

In the past ten years there have been Hamburgs with New York parts, New Yorks with Hamburg parts, as the two production lines move things closer together over the past 30 years.

As for this piano, who knows what it is. All I'd be concerned with is condition, touch and sound. It's already quite expensive to be honest, especially if it hasn't been reconditioned. It looks a bit old to be sold at that price.

Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
mcontraveos #3022111 09/06/20 03:45 PM
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I actually own what might be called a "hybrid" Steinway D that was rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017. The case, plate, and pinblock are NY Steinway; the action is Hamburg. It's a pretty good piano, IMHO:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2739001/1.html


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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
terminaldegree #3023376 09/09/20 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Do Hamburg S&S have square arms, satin lacquer finishes, and "accelerated action" stickers? Are CD pianos serial numbers typically painted over that carelessly?

NEVER


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
Joseph Fleetwood #3023379 09/09/20 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
In the past ten years there have been Hamburgs with New York parts, New Yorks with Hamburg parts, as the two production lines move things closer together over the past 30 years.

A Hamburg with NY parts??? Never seen. And I don't think it ever existed.
It's the NY production who moved things closer to Hamburg. Why? Everybody know why.

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 09/09/20 07:31 PM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
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Re: NY/Hamburg "Hybrid" on Ebay
trandinhnamanh #3023442 09/09/20 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh
Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
In the past ten years there have been Hamburgs with New York parts, New Yorks with Hamburg parts, as the two production lines move things closer together over the past 30 years.

A Hamburg with NY parts??? Never seen. And I don't think it ever existed.
It's the NY production who moved things closer to Hamburg. Why? Everybody know why.

Believe it or not, there are some Hamburgs that make it to America and find their way into music departments, and occasionally the departments request the Hamburgs are retro-fitted with the accelerated action because the American-trained students find it easier to play on.

Steinway Europe are not that interested in the American piano, and don't offer the accelerated action in Hamburg instruments, but I've no doubt a customer in London could request it if they wanted it, for example.

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