2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Spring Into Sound Sale
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
72 members (ColonelBogey, Albert Brighten, anotherscott, btcomm, Bruce In Philly, 1903wrightflyer, 1957, Ampersand, 11 invisible), 506 guests, and 436 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 158
T
Tom97 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 158
While learning the Clementi Sonatina (op. 36 no. 1), I followed the fingering given in my book (Easy cůassics to moderns vol. 17). However, the fingering in one bar seems rather weird and so uncomfortable that I started doubting the correctness of the score.
I am attaching a picture below so you can have a look yourself.
One thing is that I keep hitting F instead of G with my pinkie, the second is that it creates tension and I started feeling tingling and weird sensations going into my pinkie and 4th finger after playing this passage multiple times.
What do you think of it?

[img]https://ibb.co/X45489j[/img]

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,041
I
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,041
I would play 4312-15

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 654
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 654
I am assuming that is because of the 2 on the measure before. I think the idea is that starting on that measure that your fingering should be 23424321 and you bring the right hand over the thumb and play 2 5 for the (I assume, but can't me sure that its) Bb G


[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,031
N
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,031
There are options, but you should first check the position of the hand when going from C to the last sixth. This includes the tilt of the wrist and fingers, the placement of the thumb, also the wrist deflection . In addition, there may be:
2342 5432
3453 5432

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 164
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 164
Or 5432-15. You could start with 2 or 3 on d, whatever feels more comfortable.

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 219
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 219
I'm trying to remember how I learned this when I was younger and I want to say it was 2342 4321 25 so that would match what's written.

If I remember correctly (it's been a very long time so I could be making all this up) I wanted to do 2341 3212 15 but my teacher didn't like that idea. I can't remember the reason.

But trying it now, 2342 4321 25 feels more natural for me to really get a good smooth legato on the notes.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,089
K
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,089
Originally Posted by Greta99
Or 5432-15. You could start with 2 or 3 on d, whatever feels more comfortable.

This is what I would do, and that feels like a no-brainer to me, so I am thinking there must be good reasons for not doing so?

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,089
K
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,089
A question for the OP.

Do you hold the 5-2 longer than indicated? are you holding it down with force or letting you hand relax a little after playing it, so that you are holding down the notes but with relaxed fingers.

I get nerve pain and some numbness at times when doing constant repeats trying to drill in the correct patterns, so I know the sort of issue you talking about. Getting your fingering right can help a lot so rethinking the fingering is sensible.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,636
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,636
Any edition can contain poor fingerings but this is not one of them. That does not mean the OP has to or should use it since it is uncomfortable and is therefore not the best fingering for him. Any of the previously suggested alternate fingerings seem fine.

Tom- fingerings are suggestions and even in editions with generally good ones, they will not always be the most suitable for you. It's pretty rare that someone would use 100% pf suggested fingerings.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,737
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,737
It is a good fingering, but using the 2-5 implies some flexibility. It is something that is quite usefull to be able to do comfortably, so it is good to practice it. But in the meantime, you can use any of the alternate fingering already suggested until you have developped an increased finger span.

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,041
I
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,041
Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by Greta99
Or 5432-15. You could start with 2 or 3 on d, whatever feels more comfortable.

This is what I would do, and that feels like a no-brainer to me, so I am thinking there must be good reasons for not doing so?
For me playing DF with 25 is not comfortable.

And I guess many people would say that playing black key with 4th finger between 3rd and 5th playing white keys is not comfortable, too, it requires some years of training of 4th finger.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,089
K
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,089
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by Greta99
Or 5432-15. You could start with 2 or 3 on d, whatever feels more comfortable.

This is what I would do, and that feels like a no-brainer to me, so I am thinking there must be good reasons for not doing so?
For me playing DF with 25 is not comfortable.

And I guess many people would say that playing black key with 4th finger between 3rd and 5th playing white keys is not comfortable, too, it requires some years of training of 4th finger.

Thanks, I don't seem to have a problem with those, but i can see now that for others it could be problematic.

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,660
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,660
I have small hands so anything that is a big stretch feels uncomfortable. Following the 2 on the D you end up with F-Eb-D-C (4-3-2-1) and then the uncomfortable 2 & 5 I just use 1 & 5. Suggested fingerings try to get people to not repeat the same finger for different notes. Anything with a big stretch I have no choice but to use 1 & 5.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,636
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,636
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
I have small hands so anything that is a big stretch feels uncomfortable. Following the 2 on the D you end up with F-Eb-D-C (4-3-2-1) and then the uncomfortable 2 & 5 I just use 1 & 5. Suggested fingerings try to get people to not repeat the same finger for different notes. Anything with a big stretch I have no choice but to use 1 & 5.
The idea of using 2-5 was to play legato. If you want to 4 on the F you could use 4-3-1-2-(1+5) to avoid the stretch.

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,660
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,660
"If you want to 4 on the F you could use 4-3-1-2-(1+5) to avoid the stretch."

Definitely a workable fingering. You still end the phrase with a 1+5 instead of 2+5 as indicated.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 158
T
Tom97 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 158
I tried all the suggested finerings and the one by Iaroslav seems to be a winner. The idea of playing as indicated but just ending with - instead of is also good but in my opinion it makes the legato almost impossible.

Kevin: I always try to relax, watch out for tension etc. My teacher stops me every time she sees me play with some tension. Unfortunately, sometimes a bit of tension creeps in smile

Btw. I would never use 54xx for the last 2 beats of the mesaure before the sixth... Both my 4 and 5 are very weak and whenever I want them to cooperate, they fail me smile especially at faster tempi.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,333
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,333
When you play the C note before the interval, rotate your forearm inward (towards the left) as you play C. Then your arm will be in a better position to play the interval using 5-2 fingers. The timing of the rotation and your thumb playing the note C is crucial. Make sure that are in sync. Use of more your hand to play the interval as oppose to only using fingers.

Good luck!


Be yourself


Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help with arpeggio fingerings in Claire de Lune
by Dkahn04 - 04/15/21 08:02 AM
30 days to the next quarterly recital!
by Sam S - 04/15/21 07:09 AM
Help needed - which digital for practice?
by ColonelBogey - 04/15/21 03:58 AM
One piece to send to outer space
by chopinetto - 04/14/21 09:31 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,297
Posts3,082,663
Members101,202
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5