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Hakki does indeed play very well, and these are excellent performances, it will be a long time before I can play as well as that!

Amusingly, I attempted to track down a K-500 Aures - surely the best of both worlds for my current situation. These are not plentiful, in fact I found only four for sale and they were all in Europe! Not everyone advertises on the internet of course, but these seem hard to come by right now, I guess there is some truth to the manufacturing problems Kawai are having for these pianos.

So, new, the European price is around CA$18k. To put this into perspective, there are 15yo C Bechstein around the same price that can be had from Europe, and a whole other range of similar or near quality instruments. Of course, with the advice of this thread, I would never buy a used piano sight unseen and of course travel to Europe is out of the question right now. You have to add shipping and import taxes have to be added but it does make you think ...

Assuming that even in Canada the price is similar (reasonable), then the different in price between the Regular K-500 and K-500 Aures would be roughly the price of a CA79 or CA99, aka Kawai's top-of-the-line digitals (except NX). It hardly seems worth it, despite the "advantage" of the same piano for both quiet and loud. Also, almost worth considering a (used) GL30ATX2 at that price.

K-500 or similar seems to still be the front runner, while I sit here and muse after practise

Do you mean 15 year old CBECHSTEIN uprights are $18,000 CAD ?

I'm been lurking on this forum for a couple months now because I also just went through the whole yamaha vs kawai upright decision with my wife. We ended up deciding on a K-500 so I figured I'd share our observations and thought process.

A little background, my wife got past RCM 10 on an old chinese made upright and I was likely around RCM 7 or 8 on a $500 craiglist piano before I stopped so certainly you don't NEED a grand. But purchases like this aren't really about need

Price:
I think this is true everywhere but for us price wise, K300 < U1 < K500 < U3 < K500Aures/K800 < YUS5. We wanted an upright because we don't have room for a grand. We pretty much didn't consider the YUS5 or K800 because it seemed overkill for an upright. At that point, if we had room, we would have just gone with a baby grand both for aesthetics and the action. As good as those uprights are, the action still did not quite feel on par even with entry level grand pianos because of physics. The plan is to trade up to a grand in the next 10 years anyways.


Action/Touch:
My wife had Yamahas in school. She has some theory about the stiffer Yamaha action building muscle memory and habits that translates better for playing on a larger variety of pianos. She liked the Kawai action but she was actually concerned that it felt too easy to play. Essentially, she wanted things more difficult for herself to avoid potentially lazy habits I think?

With regards to the K500 Aures the action felt very similar to a Yamaha U1/U3 due to the additional resistance from the sensor bar. We actually dwelled on this a fair bit just for the touch but we won't ever use the digital features so the price doesn't make sense just to get Yamaha-like touch on a Kawai.

We very much liked the mock ivory keys from both companies over acrylic. Neotex on the K500/K800 felt pretty comparable to the Ivorite on the YUS5.


Tone:
I liked both. Wife had a slight preference for the Yamaha treble. Personal preference. I believe both the K800 and YUS5 have "tone release ports" behind the music rack so they can project more sound into the room. Both the K800 and YUS5 do sound awesome and have a great dynamic range. Playing pianissimo on both is noticeably better than a K500 or U3.


General impressions:
Looking online, it seems like more people recommend Kawai, likely for the specs vs price. Offline though, lots more people have Yamahas likely simply due to the more well known name and word of mouth recommendations. Both online and offline, the arguments I hear are pretty consistent though. Kawai fans talk more about the technical differences and pros and cons of both. Staunch Yamaha advocates seems to only focus on how Yamaha hasn't changed their design and how Yamaha is used in all the schools. Biased terms like "composite" vs "plastic" are thrown around of course, but really, I don't care about the material sciences. Hammer moulding wood (mahogany vs beech?), felts, and materials used in the action all sounds good for marketing talk but in the end, the touch and tone is what really mattered to us. Yamaha is definitely a more expensive brand though since the K300 and K500 have some aspects that are comparable to the YUS1 and YUS3 but people generally only compare them to U1 and U3.


Decision:
All considered, for us, the main deciding factor that really tipped the scales in favor of the K500 is the Neotex keys. The fact that it had some duplex scaling was also neat but didn't really factor too much into the tone decision.

We just wanted a piano to play at home for personal enjoyment. If we wanted more of a practice piano, then we may have gone with a Yamaha. Practicing on Yamaha action would maybe translate better to all the Yamaha pianos out there in the schools and performance halls.

The wife didn't like the tone of the K300 but that could just be the different tuning or room acoustics. Still, between the K300 and U1, she was definitely leaning more towards the U1.

For personal enjoyment though, the U1 is just a bit...plain. It's a "work horse" as some people put it. It's traditional, simple, reliable. U3 price was quite a bit higher than U1 for only being a bigger U1. The cost here for a K500 is also closer to a U1 than to a U3 so it really didn't make sense to consider a U3.

A U3 has a bigger soundboard ,and longer strings so a bigger sound than a U1.I think a bigger dynamic range. It is not just a big U1, but a nicer instrument.
As for workhorse generally the U1,U3, K300 and K500 may be considered workhorses. The term is related to them being well made pianos at an affordable cost.I do not feel the K300
.or the K500 have a more fancy case than the U1 or the U3. In fact I prefer the look of the Yamaha uprights. There is a difference in tone between the Yamaha and Kawai pianos.
A U1 used to be a piano that almost every piano teacher would recommend. Today however there are lots of alternatives.

Also a big upright often has a better bass than many small grands.It depends which uprights you are
comparing to which grands. By the way it is unlikely that you can outplay an upright. So the action is fine. Of course a grand is always nice to have.At your level or your wifes level the action should not be a problem.
For some people a grand is what they want, especially at a particular time in thier lives.I agree a grand can really look glamorous in ones living room., however a nice upright can also look really nice in any room.

Oh the U3 is definitely a better sounding piano than a U1. What I mean by it being just a larger U1 is that it pretty much feels the same, just with the sound qualities that come from being a larger piano. Here it's about 45% more expensive for a U3 than a U1, so it just didn't feel very compelling in my opinion, especially when looking at differences between a K500 vs K300 or even a YUS5 vs U3.

I also agree with the cabinet aesthetics, but of course this is subjective. It's minor but I do prefer the brass pieces on the Yamaha fallboards a little bit more than I prefer the dual castors on the Kawai. The YUS cabinets are probably my favorite but there's a premium to be paid for those as well. The K800/K400 and YUS5 with the grand style music rack are definitely the most eye catching.

On the topic of cabinets, we actually prefered the "cheaper" fold down fallboard on the K300 over the nicer locking fallboards on U1/U3 or K500 since it should makes it easier to keep thicker books on the music rack.


I don't think "outplay" is necessarily the concern. Certainly my skill level doesn't need a grand, but really, I'd be fine with another good $500 craiglist find. My wife is much more picky than I am and since she has been playing for over 20yrs, I don't really have any ground to argue with her when it comes to pianos. Still even at my level, I can very much notice the difference in the action between an entry level Yamaha grand and the YUS5 that we tried out at the showroom.

If we're talking more practical choices though, I wonder if OP should look at something like a Yamaha B3?

OK rkzhao,
I agree , Just thought I would stand up for those U series Yamaha, Kawai seems to be becoming so much more popular lately . As every one knows I love Kawai uprights and grands (except some of the smaller GL ones )
I wish you well on your lovely K500. I have played it and really like the tone.It is very popular on PW.

This does seem outrageous and I double checked. The 2005 pianos seem to have gone. The only 2000+ C Bechsteins I could find in Germany at this moment are 2 2015 124 classics for ~CA$28k, and one 2020 for the same price (!) There is also a 118 for ~CA$22k.

Thanks rkzhao for your impressions of the K-500 and your own journey. I personally didn't like the U1 but I will try the U3 again soon. I think one of the reasons Kawai are becoming more popular is that you seem to get more piano for you money. By that I mean, the U3 is comparable to the K-500 it seems, but priced against the K-800. So there is tremendous value there. However, as we all know it's about personal taste of the touch and tone of the piano and of course I personally wouldn't be unhappy if a U3 (or even U1) fell into my lap at a good price.

I am also happy to hear that both your wife and yourself progressed very far on an "inferior" piano. As I tell others when I am discussion pianos: the problem is between the stool and the keyboard: I need to practise more and better hehe.

I found your comments about the action of the Kawai interesting, I actually thought the K-500 was stiffer than the U1 or U3, but I will pay more attention to this when I play them again - I guess different pianos are different. I personally liked the weight of the action on both the K-300 and K-500, but the K-500 felt more precise (?) I guess is the word

rkzkhao
Why on earth a B3 for the OP ? A U1 or U3 has so much a better tone and response, surely ?

I would say the Kawai felt more agile I guess. Wife says they feel lighter, though maybe I'm putting words in her mouth. It just feels easier to play faster on the Kawai.


Oh I just mean a more practical choice. As a first acoustic after a couple years of lessons, maybe a B3 could be enough piano for a few years until it's time to trade up later? We tried a B3 at the showroom just out of curiosity and while it's certainly inferior to the U1, we actually thought it would be perfect if we were looking just for a solid practice piano.

I think a good piano with a nice tone is more inspiring though even for beginner.There are a fair number of people who buy magnificent grands here and they are early grade players , not even intermediate level.

New premium instruments especially European ones often arrive with excellent factory voicing ,well prepped, and very well voiced .Some of these new pianos (Sauter being one ) are often said to
"flower or bloom" tonally. In the last few months I have especially noticed this with my piano.
So new pianos certainly have thier advantages.If one needs some adjustments,this is often covered
by the warranty.

I came to the same conclusion. You can choose from a number of really good portable digitals that have great actions for way less than the difference in price. I also like having the option of owning a piano I can take with me if I go somewhere for a period of time. That's not an option so much anymore with the virus, but I used to spend at least a few weeks at a friends house in another state and it was nice to be able to take a portable with me.

You can't go wrong with that choice, I preferred the sound of the K-500 over the GL-10 I bought.

Warranty only covers defects in materials and workmanship. Any willingness to do voicing or regulation once the piano is in the owner's home is a function of the specific dealer. All pianos are said, often by salespeople, to bloom during their first year or so. It's not a function of the piano being premium or not.

Well I was expecting you or someone else to pop to up spoil the fun .
The point being european premium pianos arrive well prepared, have been well voiced and are often in tune !
I shall see where I found the part about the BLOOMING 💐 and post it .It was not something the dealer mentioned ! SO everyone CAN relax !

Pianoloverus
Where did I say anything about any dealer being required to voice or regulate a piano as part of the warranty ????
That is your invention !!!
A dealer who is not prepared to adjust a pedal, be stingy about warranty service or be interested in a piano settling in in though, is not much a dealer as far as I am concerned.
Good new European pianos do not need this type of service anyway

This is the main reason why I am considering buying one now, rather than when I "need" it for performance reasons. If you want to hear your piano sing, rather than just play for practises sake, then that adds to the motivation.

I agree rather buy a piano that sings ,and is inspiring than a piano which does nothing to inspire you.It could be a U3 or a Bechstein 124 or any brand as long as it has a creative tone, a sensitive response, something meaningful to you.

I am very happy with my K500 for the touch and sound!!
Previously, I had bought a new Schimmel K169, but it was too big for my space and not as nice as what I am enjoying with the Kawai K500 for touch and sound!!

When did you purchase the K-500?

4 years ago. It was from a piano dealer. Very pleased with it!