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Jack(?) clicking
#3013687 08/14/20 06:29 AM
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Hi,

I'm trying to record my new piano and to get an intimate sound, and also everything else sounds crappy in the room, I placed the mics relatively close to the action and I get quite a bit of clicking / scratching from what I believe is the jack (that thing that pops out just before the hammer hits the string) rubbing against whatever it's rubbing against.
Is that something that can be remedied? I have a visit from the technician in about a month's time anyway.

I don't hear it when I play with lid closed or just slightly opened but you can hear in on the recording in quieter parts such as between 1:23 and 1:40 in the video I linked below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKsVh7So7Ng&feature=youtu.be

Anything in particular I should tell my technician in addition to "it's clicking"? Maybe it's not something every technician is very familiar with since you don't always notice. But I do and it bugs me wink

Thanks

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Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3013694 08/14/20 06:58 AM
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Thank you for sharing your playing - lovely! What was the last piece, from about 2:40? Philip Glass? Einaudi?
I am afraid I cant tell what the noise is. If you take off the top panel, and get your ear close, does that help you to localise the sound?

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3013708 08/14/20 07:42 AM
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Keybender,
To me, that sounded like a little more than "jack slap".
That sounded like the whole wippen body, and abstract returning with a thump.
I would have your tech check the condition of the capstan felts.
When they get hammered in they make a lot of noise.

Craig


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Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3013718 08/14/20 08:09 AM
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Oh wow, I have to look up a lot of words here laugh
I'll check again later, maybe I can record the culprit in action.

Last piece was by a guy called "Reyn". I made a full recording of this on my Z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoP3ktm026Y
and there's of course the real thing played with more technical proficiency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnXmEElHsA

Interesting, simple music - I always feel his pieces are more like fragments that could've been made into much more. But there's certainly a couple of nice melodies to be found there. If I knew anything about composing, I'd definitely try some variations on his themes.
Le silence eternel is my favorite and I actually play it quite often, very relaxing.

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3013722 08/14/20 08:32 AM
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Just great, now it doesn't really appear again and of course I forgot on which keys it was particularly prominent smirk Maybe it's the weather

There really shouldn't be any worn felts - the piano was completely revised. The hammer heads and dampers are new I believe and either there are new strings or they have been thoroughly cleaned.

Is it possible that things just need to be worn in a bit?

Last edited by Keybender; 08/14/20 08:34 AM.
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3013723 08/14/20 08:34 AM
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i did not clicking jack there. Yours music is brilliant,
good lucks,

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3014284 08/15/20 03:36 PM
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Judging by the timing of the noise to the music, it sounds like it might be related to the damper pedal. It's best if you can figure out exactly how to make the noise. Try with pedal up and down, loud and quiet, soft pedal down, repeating notes, letting go of key quickly or slowly, etc.

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3014680 08/16/20 07:43 PM
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Hard to tell but one thing I would recommend is isolating the microphones from the Piano cabinet. You could be getting vibration noise.


-Bill L.
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3014797 08/17/20 08:18 AM
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DanS, thanks for the observation and the hints! I thought the same initially but then somehow neglected to follow up on that.

WBLynch - how? just put them on something soft?

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3014936 08/17/20 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Keybender
WBLynch - how? just put them on something soft?

I would put them on boom stands and not straight into the piano. You certainly don’t want them on the piano itself as it vibrates and shakes while playing.


-Bill L.
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3015764 08/20/20 02:04 AM
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The clicking sounds a bit like weak glue joints between the hammers and shanks. Also possibly at the point where hammer shanks are glued to the hammer butts.

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3016032 08/20/20 07:10 PM
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I’ve had a very similar sound. It was hammer head glue joints broken loose. Go back to your recording and listen for which notes they are. The clicking can come and go as manipulation of the hammer, by hand or playing, can sometimes solidify the connection, temporarily hiding the deficiency.


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
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Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3017471 08/24/20 07:29 PM
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I hear that "tic" but it's at 1:25 then again slightly lower at 1:28 but I can not hear it at the 1:40 point as you mentioned as there were more notes played there. I'm thinking when the jack returns (whatever key that is you are playing) it is returning to a "slightly hardened" felt cushion causing a click but not every time seems to me which is common depending on the speed of the jack as it returns. It could also be a damper as it lifts or returns to the strings. I think I would check the the felt directly behind the jack after you identify clearly what note it happens on. What I often do is "massage" the felt by getting my finger on the felt and rubbing (massaging) the "crusty" particles away same thing with the damper felt. My thoughts. Sounds great though....bravo to your playing....Duane.

Last edited by Duaner; 08/24/20 07:32 PM.

Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3017623 08/25/20 07:59 AM
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I just discovered with great joy that the key cover is not screwed in like it was in my Z, so I can really see the action now.... aaaaaand I think I got it, at least I got something that makes a similar sound. Stay tuned for a video laugh

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3017628 08/25/20 08:34 AM
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So here's the video - spoiler: it seems to be the bridle tape scratching against the thread of a screw that holds... errr... something important... in place.
Checking the pieces I played in the original videos, it's exactly those keys that are next to the screws that make the noise.

https://youtu.be/Nu9ACJbECXo

YOU WERE ALL WRONG! wink

But jokes aside thanks a lot for helping out here, if it hadn't been for all the ideas on what to check I wouldn't have looked as closely as I have when checking all the felts and such.

That leaves one question: what to do about it?

Last edited by Keybender; 08/25/20 08:36 AM.
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3017631 08/25/20 08:57 AM
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Another update:

I kind of fixed it minimally invasive, quick and reversible by taking a small piece of adhesive tape and rolling it into a hollow cylinder that will just fit over the screw. If you listen really closely, there is still some noise from the the fabric sliding along the smooth side of the tape - but it's probably not audible even on the recording. I wonder what my technician will say and if he has a more professional fix for this issue.

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3017750 08/25/20 06:17 PM
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Good for you Keybender......did anyone ever tell you that you sound exactly like "Victor Borge".....that came out to me while listening to (and watching) the last video.....not to shabby....cheers...


Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3017832 08/26/20 02:02 AM
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I guess that's a compliment? I'll go check who that is smile
Thanks again for encouraging me to investigate.

Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3018116 08/26/20 10:18 PM
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Your welcome....and it is a compliment, VB was a comedian who played a great piano to packed houses. U-tube has many of his vids and his act is really fun and fun-loving....take care.


Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Jack(?) clicking
Keybender #3018168 08/27/20 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Keybender
So here's the video - spoiler: it seems to be the bridle tape scratching against the thread of a screw that holds... errr... something important... in place.
Checking the pieces I played in the original videos, it's exactly those keys that are next to the screws that make the noise.

https://youtu.be/Nu9ACJbECXo

YOU WERE ALL WRONG! wink

But jokes aside thanks a lot for helping out here, if it hadn't been for all the ideas on what to check I wouldn't have looked as closely as I have when checking all the felts and such.

That leaves one question: what to do about it?

You could try bending the bridle tape wire to the left slightly, so that the tape doesn't rub against the screw. Those screws are what holds the Jack Slap Rail in place.

I don't think you sound like Victor Borge!

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