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Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
#3012512 08/11/20 01:34 AM
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Do Hanon exercises apply? Are there better more suited exercises for adult learners?

Last edited by onaiplatigid; 08/11/20 01:35 AM.

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Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3012523 08/11/20 02:42 AM
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Personally, I would prever Czerny's opus 599.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3012529 08/11/20 03:36 AM
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The Schmitt preparatory exercises are similar to Hanon but much more exhaustive if you have the patience:
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks...57600-Schmitt-_Preparatory_Exercises.pdf

Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3012538 08/11/20 04:35 AM
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I've done Hanon (only the first twenty) and they are beneficial.

Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3012543 08/11/20 05:02 AM
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If you decide to do exercises, the time per day should be limited with the majority of your time spent actually playing music. In addition, all instructions ‘to lift your fingers high’ are Considered outdated and can lead to injury


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3012552 08/11/20 05:54 AM
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After many years of experimentation I now understand that the best exercises are the simplest ones. Probably because they develop micro-motions which are used in large range of more complex movements.

This was my first exercise IIRC when I was a kid and I think it's excellent to start with. I play it sometimes now, too.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2753522/re-best-exercises.html#Post2753522

Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
dogperson #3012554 08/11/20 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
In addition, all instructions ‘to lift your fingers high’ are Considered outdated and can lead to injury
I am with you dogperson, but there are still teachers teaching this...


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
Animisha #3012559 08/11/20 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by dogperson
In addition, all instructions ‘to lift your fingers high’ are Considered outdated and can lead to injury
I am with you dogperson, but there are still teachers teaching this...
In fact it's an excellent exercise, but it must be done properly. The fingers must not be raised and lowered as little hammers, curled, but instead a fairly relaxed, fairly straightened finger must be raised from the "knuckle" joint (MCP joint) and then lowered from the knuckle, too, using mainly the intrinsic hand muscles.

Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
Iaroslav Vasiliev #3012565 08/11/20 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In fact it's an excellent exercise, but it must be done properly. The fingers must not be raised and lowered as little hammers, curled, but instead a fairly relaxed, fairly straightened finger must be raised from the "knuckle" joint (MCP joint) and then lowered from the knuckle, too, using mainly the intrinsic hand muscles.

Like this?



Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
Qazsedcft #3012571 08/11/20 08:57 AM
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If you're going to do exercises like these, be sure to transpose them too all major and minor keys, same fingerings. You get improved tactile awareness of the keyboard from doing that as well as keeping your mind more engaged.


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Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
Animisha #3012896 08/12/20 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In fact it's an excellent exercise, but it must be done properly. The fingers must not be raised and lowered as little hammers, curled, but instead a fairly relaxed, fairly straightened finger must be raised from the "knuckle" joint (MCP joint) and then lowered from the knuckle, too, using mainly the intrinsic hand muscles.

Like this?

Almost. For some reason she lifts not only the finger that is going to play next but other fingers, too. It's not correct. Only the finger that is going to play next must be lifted and other fingers must remain relaxed at that moment (except for 4th finger that always needs a little help from his neighbours).

Last edited by Iaroslav Vasiliev; 08/12/20 02:59 AM.
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
Seeker #3013202 08/12/20 07:58 PM
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So, I’m not clear on this. It isn’t something my teacher has not ever suggested, she pretty much says to play what’s on the page.

If it’s CDEFGAB, and you’re transposing to G, do you start on G and play GABCDEF#? or do you still start on C but play the F#, so it’s CDEF#GAB?

This is a skill I need to acquire.


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Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
MH1963 #3013271 08/13/20 01:00 AM
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If transposing to G then start on G and play GABCDEF#.

Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
MH1963 #3013273 08/13/20 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MH1963
If it’s CDEFGAB, and you’re transposing to G, do you start on G and play GABCDEF#? or do you still start on C but play the F#, so it’s CDEF#GAB?
You start on G and play GABCDEF#, because only if you start on G, the distances between the keys will be the same. W= whole step, H = half step, and in CDEFGABC you have WWHWWWH. In CDEF#GABC you would have WWWHWWH. The first mentioned WWHWWWH pattern is the same for all major scales.
If this is too technical for you, just play CDEFGAB then play GABCDEF#, and hear that they sound the same, one is just a bit higher. Then play CDEFGAB and then CDEF#GAB, and you'll hear that they do not sound the same.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3013446 08/13/20 01:56 PM
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Thanks, I understand! That’s a challenge for sure!


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Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
MH1963 #3013456 08/13/20 02:44 PM
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OP - sorry not to have been explicit enough.
You need a little "music theory" to understand.
Major Scales are built of 2 "tetrachords", sequences of 4 ascending notes.
If you look at C major on the piano - the first tetrachord is C-D-E-F, the second is G-A-B-C.
A major scale has just TWO places in which there is a "half-step", or a minor 2nd, depending on the nomenclature you are using.
They are: 3-4, and 7-8. Notice those half-step precede the highest note in each tetrachord.
So... to construct a major scale,
C-D D-E E-F
Tetrachord 1: 1-2 (M2), 2-3(M2) 3-4(m2)

G-A A-B B-C
Tetrachord 2: 5-6 (M2), 6-7(M2), 7-8(m2)

M2 = Major second
m2 = minor second

If you visualize, or look at the piano keyboard, a minor 2nd is built from 2 adjacent keys, a major 2nd has ONE additional key.
Look at the keyboard: E-F (also 3-4 in the C major scale) are adjacent,
C-D (also known as 1-2 in the C major scale) have a key in the middle. It happens to be a black key, but it can just as well be a white key.

You can now build a major scale starting on any key using the method above.
Likewise, you can transpose the exercises into any (major) key using the method above.

Minor scales have a different arrangement of intervals.
I leave that to you to discover as an exercise.

Hope this doesn't confuse you more :-)


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
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I Make Music that Lifts People Up & Brings Them Together
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www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3016863 08/22/20 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by onaiplatigid
Do Hanon exercises apply? Are there better more suited exercises for adult learners?

Hanon exercises are not good for you.
Your goal (ultimately) is dexterity / speed, not strength = muscles.
Strength and muscles might seem like a goal, but it's not, those make you slower - think body builder.
And mindless repetition might seem like a good thing, but it isn't, it does nothing for you but build bad habits.
Scales, arpeggios at least have value. There are plenty of other exercises.
Stay away from Hanon.

Let me rephrase some of that.
*some* Hanon makes sense, but stay away from hours or endless, mindless, repetitive Hanon...

Last edited by JohnnyIssieBangie; 08/22/20 11:47 PM.
Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
Animisha #3016904 08/23/20 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In fact it's an excellent exercise, but it must be done properly. The fingers must not be raised and lowered as little hammers, curled, but instead a fairly relaxed, fairly straightened finger must be raised from the "knuckle" joint (MCP joint) and then lowered from the knuckle, too, using mainly the intrinsic hand muscles.

Like this?


I wont comment on the fact that it is usefull or not, but it certainly does not help building muscles of any sort. Playing any type of music, doing scales will be efficient than this. The exercices that develop specifically both finger independance, flexibility and increased control are held notes. There are plenty of variations from very simple to very complex.

Re: Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
onaiplatigid #3017082 08/23/20 04:43 PM
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Check Plaidy technical excercises. They are short and in large part meant to be played in all keys. I think Peters edition is better, there is a Schirmer edition available in IMSLP but i think it concentrates too much to C major which misses the whole point of the book i think. (of course you can ignore instructions and play in all keys from number 36 onwards).

I play a little bit every day and after six months i am on page 12, so patience is required wink I think it is more like a brain excercise book than a finger excercise.


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