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Hi Folks,

friend of mine purchased a NV5 (my recommendation) and got it last week.

Now he found out that his NV5 does only play a note if the key completely returns to "start position" .

Please see for reference the German kawai forum under "Novus" ( he does not speak or write English).

He is now really upset with me and calls me piano noob.

Question: Is this "normal" as dealer stated or can this be fixed?

Tested this on my CA99 and everything works fine so far

Thanks Galu *in panic mode*

If you are saying a note only sounds after a key is let go, then no that isn't normal. If it's happening across the entire keybed, sounds like it may be an assembly/calibration issue.

My reading of it, it is that after playing a note the note can't be repeated until after the key has returned completely to rest position.

I think there is likely a bit of a learning lesson here, and I'm sure I've been guilty of it in the past. But be a little careful when giving recommendations when large sums of money are involved.

But at the same time a recommendation is not an instruction to act. Purchasers need to remember this and only use recommendations as just a part of their research.

Just to clarify because KevinM was not clear (maybe too polite). If the "problem" is what Kevin describes, then it is not a problem, it is the normal behavior of an upright piano, and nv5 is one of only two models to have that feature. It is bought only by the many people that WANT a true upright action; otherwise ca99 or nv10 are the alternatives. Your friend bought the Best digital upright and now is complaining about it behaving as it should. You may have a problem, your friends also, but nv5 does not...

Ah, I think you are right. It makes much more sense if OP is talking about repetition, in which case this is more of an upright/double-repetiton characteristic.

If this is the case, then this statement is pretty ironic:


What kind of experienced pianist who needs double-repetiton buys a $6-7000 instrument on the recommendation of another without testing it themselves to ensure it suits their purpose, or without understanding the very single most important premise of the entire instrument (the NV-5 has an upright acoustic action)?

Is it fair to say that the issue can be solved by swapping for an NV10?

Well, this is how upright pianos work. We're now having a silent-note-gate with the NV5 It's the same root cause that leads to the loud-note issue on NU1X. There are some very expensive upright pianos that utilize some magnetic or mechanical solutions to fix this inherent issue with the upright piano actions.

I'd tell him he is the one who is a N00B. You can use arguments such as: vinyl records have pops but audiophiles use turntables, right! The real connoisseurs use the disadvantages to their advantage and the feel of the real acoustic piano action (albeit upright) is so much better than the CA-pianos, that it's worth it to try appreciating the pops. Be assertive and even aggressive :P

Yes that seems to be exactly the problem.

It is not that I confirmed any feature or being in some sort of trouble. Just told him to test try the instrument in the shop because it is one of the better brands on the market.

The old story: Did not expirenced it in the shop but later at home :-(.

Galu

This no-note without fully releasing the key first means the nv5 acts exactly like an acoustic upright, I don't see the problem.

You buy a dp with a real upright action, and it works like one as it should.

I dont know what level is your friend, but i played the NV5 and the repetition is only an issue for extremely fast repeated notes. Some upright pianos have a very performant action, like the Bechstein. The NV5 is pretty good and will do a good job except for some extremely fast passages. If your friend wants a grand piano action, then he needs to buy a DP that is designed for that. I would say any experienced pianist would know that, especially when spending 6k, and would always test the piano before buying. Now if your friend is not an advanced pianist, then the NV5 is an excellent DP and i dont see the issue.

It's been a long time since I donated my old Kawai upright ... but if memory serves, you can play a note before releasing it fully.
You have to allow the key to return almost to the top of its range, but not quite all the way.
Or is my recollection failing me?

On my NU1X I can repeat a note without fully lifting the key. If I play rapid repeated notes every one in 10 or so doesn't make a sound.

I also have no issues here on my NV5.

...or by changing the thread's title to "Problem with Novus NV5 owner"?

That sounds about right.

I'm curious about this too. Can anyone confirm that the NV5 and NV10 have equivalent of 'triple sensor' actions to allow multiple note on messages without a corresponding note off. The VPC1 has this. Many controllers do not, and they work exactly as this NV5 user suggests in that the key has to return to its full up position or very close to it before another note can be triggered. This probably happens whether triggering internal voices or using the MIDI output to trigger VSTs, etc. It seems any premium piano controller would use the triple sensor method so notes can be repeated properly. Even upright actions with no repetition mechanism can still repeat notes to some degree without the strings being fully dampened.

Just read the NV5 webpage, and there's only this about the sensors: "The precise movements of each hammer are measured using high-resolution optical sensors, providing greater accuracy than conventional key-based sensor systems. This more advanced approach closely reproduces the mechanical flow of an acoustic piano, and allows rapid pianissimo passages with mordents or trills to be performed with greater fluency." But the VPC1 webpage has an entire section on triple sensors and why they're important accompanied by an illustration. So I wonder if the Novus models also have this, and if this is what the OP's friend is referring to.

The optical hammer sensors are not truly the equivalent of a typical DP's triple sensors, but I can confirm that the sensing system easily allow multiple note-on messages without a corresponding note-off *in between*. Meaning on the NV-10, you can play multiple notes without fully releasing the key in between, exactly as you can on an acoustic grand (i.e., keeping the damper up between keystrikes). I assume that even though the sensors allow this on the NV-5 as well, being an acoustic upright its mechanical action limitations that may impact where the key-off triggers in relation to the repetition mechanism?

Note that every note-on WILL have a corresponding note-off, but those note-offs are buffered and play successively when the key is finally released.

Same on my NU1. Maybe the OPs instrument needs adjusting (regulation), or they are comparing it to a grand and something was lost in translation or expression of the 'problem'.

Was thinking this as a possibility as well. I have a K-300 which presumably has a similar action. I was also experiencing similar problems. I initially attributed this to my technique (coming from a DP, as well as being a beginner), but it turns out that (also) some keys had tight centre pins. The problem became worse when humidity went up, with the problematic keys becoming slow. The dealer fixed it by exchanging pins, now everything fine.