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Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
#3011567 08/08/20 01:42 PM
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Hello,

I'm changing my Korg M3 88 to something with better keybed. I have also Kawai VPC1 (in my family home) and I am very satisfied. The action is my priority. And build quality. (Some keys in M3 have clicking sound and it's very disturbing to me).

I decided to buy FP-90 but there is a problem in my country to get it at a reasonable price (I'd have to wait a few months) so I'm starting thinking about MP7 SE.

Can you please advise what do you think about both actions? I read a lot that PHA-50 is more similar to GF2 but what if compare it to Kawai RH3? Also is it a big difference between Kawai RM3 and RH3?

And second thing, which piano is more solid? I mean keybed but also buttons, knobs etc.?


No, I can't test them in store. frown

Thank you in advance smile


Kawai MP7SE, Kawai VPC1, Korg M3-M Xpanded
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017601 08/25/20 06:07 AM
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I finally bought kawai MP7SE.

I am really satisfied with the action. Maybe because I also have VPC1 and I am a huge fan of Kawai instruments smile

However could someone please tell me if it is normal that I bought brand new Kawai and the screen looks like this:
[img]https://ibb.co/xhmD0b1[/img]

It's scratched. It also had no protective film.

Second question: How can I check production year by serial number?


Thank you for any help smile

Last edited by Alert_XIII; 08/25/20 06:08 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Kawai VPC1, Korg M3-M Xpanded
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017606 08/25/20 06:31 AM
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Hi,

Nice to hear you are happy with your MP7SE. Unfortunately I do not have any answer to your questions but decided to arrogantly take my chance to ask you one. smile Now that you have both VPC1 and MP7SE, how would you describe the action difference? I was able to find Kawai ES8 from local store (and it has the same RH3 as the MP7SE) but it is totally impossible to find VPC1 anywhere to try the action.

I've seen many complaints about VPC1 being "too heavy" while some people just love it. I really liked RH3 - it is somewhat better than RH-C I have in my Kawai ES110 - but was not sure if it's enough better to justify the upgrade or if I should go directly to VPC1, which is currently my top choice. In general I'm also loving Kawai actions, when I got my ES110 I selected it over PHA-4 Rolands.

Would appreciate first-hand experience from someone who has both! Thanks!

Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017608 08/25/20 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Alert_XIII
I finally bought kawai MP7SE.

I am really satisfied with the action. Maybe because I also have VPC1 and I am a huge fan of Kawai instruments smile

However could someone please tell me if it is normal that I bought brand new Kawai and the screen looks like this:
[img]https://ibb.co/xhmD0b1[/img]

It's scratched. It also had no protective film.

Second question: How can I check production year by serial number?


Thank you for any help smile
IMHO that is the protective film. Remove it!

Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
spanishbuddha #3017621 08/25/20 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by Alert_XIII
I finally bought kawai MP7SE.

I am really satisfied with the action. Maybe because I also have VPC1 and I am a huge fan of Kawai instruments smile

However could someone please tell me if it is normal that I bought brand new Kawai and the screen looks like this:
[img]https://ibb.co/xhmD0b1[/img]

It's scratched. It also had no protective film.

Second question: How can I check production year by serial number?


Thank you for any help smile
IMHO that is the protective film. Remove it!

+1 - definitely the protective film smile


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
roja #3017655 08/25/20 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by roja
Hi,

Nice to hear you are happy with your MP7SE. Unfortunately I do not have any answer to your questions but decided to arrogantly take my chance to ask you one. smile Now that you have both VPC1 and MP7SE, how would you describe the action difference? I was able to find Kawai ES8 from local store (and it has the same RH3 as the MP7SE) but it is totally impossible to find VPC1 anywhere to try the action.

I've seen many complaints about VPC1 being "too heavy" while some people just love it. I really liked RH3 - it is somewhat better than RH-C I have in my Kawai ES110 - but was not sure if it's enough better to justify the upgrade or if I should go directly to VPC1, which is currently my top choice. In general I'm also loving Kawai actions, when I got my ES110 I selected it over PHA-4 Rolands.

Would appreciate first-hand experience from someone who has both! Thanks!
First of all you need to know that I am adult who start learning piano. So I do not have many years of experience with acoustic pianos. MP7SE was delivered to me today so I spend a lot more of my time with VPC1. Also it is my subiective feelings.
So because it is subiective, I cannot fully answer to question about keyboard weight. It is heavy. It is heavier than Kawai RH3 or Roland PHA-50. As far I do not play really fast pieces so it is OK for me.

In my opinion the action in RM3 is slightly deeper than in RH3. Also it is easier for me to control (trying to control) dynamics on RM3. And the awareness of that RM3 has wooden keys is advantage for me.

So for me RM3 is better but there is no diametrical difference between them. VPC1 has no internal sound engine and weighs more than MP7SE.


Originally Posted by Lillith
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by Alert_XIII
I finally bought kawai MP7SE.

I am really satisfied with the action. Maybe because I also have VPC1 and I am a huge fan of Kawai instruments smile

However could someone please tell me if it is normal that I bought brand new Kawai and the screen looks like this:
[img]https://ibb.co/xhmD0b1[/img]

It's scratched. It also had no protective film.

Second question: How can I check production year by serial number?


Thank you for any help smile
IMHO that is the protective film. Remove it!

+1 - definitely the protective film smile
There is no part here that I can pull and remove but you may be right. I do not want to break anything, so can any of the MP users confirm?

Thank you smile


Kawai MP7SE, Kawai VPC1, Korg M3-M Xpanded
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017724 08/25/20 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alert_XIII
There is no part here that I can pull and remove but you may be right. I do not want to break anything, so can any of the MP users confirm?

Thank you smile

You may try gently lifting the film (if it is still there - hard to be absolutely sure from the picture) with your fingernail. Or a sharp knife (again very carefully). Try lifting the film at the display corner.

Was this unit a floor demo one? I have never seen a brand new product with protective film so badly scratched (unless it is a matter of lighting making it look worse than reality).


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
EVC2017 #3017728 08/25/20 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by Alert_XIII
There is no part here that I can pull and remove but you may be right. I do not want to break anything, so can any of the MP users confirm?

Thank you smile

You may try gently lifting the film (if it is still there - hard to be absolutely sure from the picture) with your fingernail. Or a sharp knife (again very carefully). Try lifting the film at the display corner.

Was this unit a floor demo one? I have never seen a brand new product with protective film so badly scratched (unless it is a matter of lighting making it look worse than reality).
There is some foil on the display but it holds very tight. I would say it is an integral part of the screen if not for your comments.

It is brand new. And it is no matter of lighting. It is really heavily scratched. Really strange. My Korg M3 has almost no scratches although it has a touchscreen and is aged. MP7SE does not even have a touchscreen...
I am wondering if I should contact the seller? No other signs of use.


Kawai MP7SE, Kawai VPC1, Korg M3-M Xpanded
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017778 08/25/20 07:45 PM
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Roja, there is not much similarity between VPC1 and ES8/MP7. The VPC1 is quite heavier and the RH3 is bouncier....And for me more fun to play. Probably the MP11se would suit you well. It is somewhere in between with a very solid feel and wooded keys.


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https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070 for jazz, classical, world, rock tracks
Kawai ES8, Casio PXS3000
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
roja #3017790 08/25/20 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by roja
I've seen many complaints about VPC1 being "too heavy" while some people just love it. I really liked RH3 - it is somewhat better than RH-C I have in my Kawai ES110 - but was not sure if it's enough better to justify the upgrade or if I should go directly to VPC1, which is currently my top choice. In general I'm also loving Kawai actions, when I got my ES110 I selected it over PHA-4 Rolands.

Would appreciate first-hand experience from someone who has both! Thanks!

My VPC1 is about the same weight as my acoustic upright, which isn't particularly heavy for an acoustic. I think those who say it is too heavy are likely exclusively digital players, or just prefer lighter actions in general. Like most digitals, it does get a bit heavier closer to the fallboard because of the pivot, but mainly within the last inch. There is very little adjustment necessary when I switch back and forth between my upright and the VPC1, which is something I've never experienced with a digital before. If you're only used to lighter actions, it definitely will take some getting used to, but it can only help your technique imo.

Last edited by maul; 08/25/20 08:41 PM.
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017793 08/25/20 08:46 PM
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Maul, I’ve played a Steinway B for twenty years. It had a lighter action than the VPC1. I hear where you are coming from, and I do prefer a lighter action these days, but the whole idea of a great grand action is that it’s easier to play well than an upright. IMO, the RHlll is more like a modest upright than a good grand. The MP11 is easier to play than the VPC1, IMO... and it has a more advanced action.


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https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070 for jazz, classical, world, rock tracks
Kawai ES8, Casio PXS3000
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017794 08/25/20 08:50 PM
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From the picture, I also think it has to be the protective film (a really, really good one???). Someone would have to work pretty hard to scratch up the screen that badly!

Use a hairdryer to see if you can get one of the corners to lift. If you've tried everything without any luck, definitely contact your dealer, you shouldn't have to live with that. Try using a hairdryer before you call though; it would be kinda embarrassing to have a repairman come all the way out to remove a film smile

Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
IosPlayer #3017795 08/25/20 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Maul, I’ve played a Steinway B for twenty years. It had a lighter action than the VPC1. I hear where you are coming from, and I do prefer a lighter action these days, but the whole idea of a great grand action is that it’s easier to play well than an upright. IMO, the RHlll is more like a modest upright than a good grand. The MP11 is easier to play than the VPC1, IMO... and it has a more advanced action.

Obviously acoustics can have a variety of heaviness, but in my experience most are generally not much lighter than the VPC1. I think it would prepare someone better for general acoustic playing than a digital on the lighter side, and it's more difficult to adjust to something heavier than you're used to than the other way around. By RHIII are you referring to RM3II btw? And yes, based on the downweight measurements I've seen the MP11 is certainly lighter, but "more advanced" I'd definitely disagree with. Their action mechanisms are essentially the same, the only main difference being the fulcrum distance.

Last edited by maul; 08/25/20 08:56 PM.
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017800 08/25/20 09:45 PM
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Alert_XIII, I believe the MP7SE/MP11SE do ship with a protective film covering the screen.

Kind regards,
James
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Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3017836 08/26/20 03:01 AM
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Thanks, Alert_XIII and others who commented about keybeds, much appreciated! The conversation here strengthens my interpretation that the differences between the actions in question are quite minor in sense that it becomes a discussion about preference, not that there would be any huge technical flaw in any. MP11SE would probably be "the safe choice" but unfortunately it's so darned expensive I'd like to get to test VPC1 first as I'm only using virtual instruments anyways. But let's see if I'll be able to find one.

Also, apologies for hijacking the thread a bit. smile

Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
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scrape the edge with a popsicle stick.

Last edited by jeffcat; 08/26/20 07:17 AM.
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
roja #3018542 08/28/20 04:55 AM
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Thank you all of you who tried to help me smile I really appreciate it. Even if it is protective film I decided to write to the store for explanations.

Originally Posted by roja
Thanks, Alert_XIII and others who commented about keybeds, much appreciated! The conversation here strengthens my interpretation that the differences between the actions in question are quite minor in sense that it becomes a discussion about preference, not that there would be any huge technical flaw in any. MP11SE would probably be "the safe choice" but unfortunately it's so darned expensive I'd like to get to test VPC1 first as I'm only using virtual instruments anyways. But let's see if I'll be able to find one.

Also, apologies for hijacking the thread a bit. smile
The more I play the bigger the difference I feel in favor of VPC1. I discovered one more thing. When I press a key as light as I can to find let off mechanizm and then I keep pressing to the bottom there is no sound in MP7SE while in VPC1 it is. This confirms my argument about dynamics. But it is also puzzling. I thought Triple Sensor should works similar in both keybeds.


Kawai MP7SE, Kawai VPC1, Korg M3-M Xpanded
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3018728 08/28/20 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Alert_XIII
The more I play the bigger the difference I feel in favor of VPC1. I discovered one more thing. When I press a key as light as I can to find let off mechanizm and then I keep pressing to the bottom there is no sound in MP7SE while in VPC1 it is. This confirms my argument about dynamics. But it is also puzzling. I thought Triple Sensor should works similar in both keybeds.


Alert_XIII, I thought that by now somebody more knowledgeable than I would have posted some comment on yours. So I will hazard a guess.

It is my understanging the let off jury-rig tries with varying levels of success to provide the feel of a real AP keybed. I think the behavior you noticed could occurr with some APs as well: if you press the key too slowly, you may very well have the hammer not hitting the string at all. More important is whether MP7SE allows you to play ppp passages in a consistent way with a good feel. That would be a more meaningful test IMO. For the record, I am not trying to defend the action; though I own an ES8 (same keybed) and I am not a huge fan of it.

It is my understanding the third sensor is meant to allow a better escapement simulation, allowing you to replay a partially depressed key. It has nothing to do with making a note sound with an unrealistic slow key pressing.

Last edited by EVC2017; 08/28/20 05:15 PM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
EVC2017 #3018825 08/28/20 09:18 PM
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Hi,

I have a Kawai MP7SE and also noticed what you've mentionned about the sound not being generated when playing really really soft.

I noticed it while playing the main acoustic piano sound. It wasn't as obvious with other sounds since we generally don't have to play these other sounds as softly.

There is an easy fix to it though.

Thanks to the amazing adjustments possible on the MP7SE, we can create our own KeyVolume curve and assign it to the sound. I don't know many other keyboards we can do this. I love my MP7SE. So many parameters can be adjusted on this professional keyboard.


Here are 3 photos so you can see what I did:

I didn't adjust all notes. Just from C2 to C5. I use "Heavy" for the keyboard touch parameter.


With the KeyVolume curve the MP7SE always produces a sound even when I play as soft as I can.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/8undyr7iptunogy/IMG_20200828_204054.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kf4xt2s6u03a0f6/IMG_20200828_204130.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fvbu1crz27ii8s/IMG_20200828_204150.jpg?dl=0


Hope this help.

Last edited by Jupiter16; 08/28/20 09:25 PM. Reason: Issue linking the images

Kawai MP7SE, Studiologic SL88 Grand, Yamaha Montage 6, Dexibell SX7
Re: Roland FP-90 vs Kawai MP7 SE
Alert_XIII #3018832 08/28/20 09:44 PM
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Oh I forgot mentioning. My MP7SE also has the film protector on the screen. I haven't tried removing it yet. I decided to leave it there since it "protects" the screen.


Kawai MP7SE, Studiologic SL88 Grand, Yamaha Montage 6, Dexibell SX7
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