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Try bone conduction earphone!
#3011015 08/07/20 12:42 AM
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Bone conduction earphones are good for cycling, jogging, gym... I'd like to add playing piano to this list. My reasons are:

Comfortable and open when compare to normal earphones.
Neighbor-friendly when compare to speakers.

What do you think?

Last edited by Yushi; 08/07/20 12:43 AM.
Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011017 08/07/20 01:00 AM
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Regular headphones can be comfortable too.

I haven't tried bone conducting ones. Visually impaired people sometimes use them too with mobile apps that e.g. speak out street names, intersections and whatnot as they don't cover the ears.

I wonder how's the sound quality? Good enough for piano? I'm doubtful.

Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011019 08/07/20 01:16 AM
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I use bone conduction headphones a lot for listening since I run into problems enclosing my ears. The sound is very good. However the very best ones are made by After Shokz and are all bluetooth. The latency makes it impossible to use them for actual playing. Does anyone know of a good corded bone conduction headphone or ones without the latency issue. Do all bluetooth headphones suffer from this latency issue?

Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
vidio #3011023 08/07/20 01:58 AM
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@vidio about the latency:
I haven't tried After Shokz actually, but I think the problem may not necessarily lie in the headphones side.
Would you suffer this latency when you, for example, watch videos on PCs? If not, probably it is about your piano.

Check aptX. In short, device don't support aptX introduce extra latency into bluetooth.

See the HIGHLIGHTS of kawai ca79: https://www.kawai-global.com/product/ca79/. It says "Integrated Bluetooth® MIDI and Audio with aptX support". Other pianos may offer that too.

Hope this helps!

Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011037 08/07/20 03:54 AM
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Video is different. A video stream can be (and is) buffered such that it is delayed to the same extent as the audio, which hides the latency.

Real-time interactive applications such as gaming and music playing can't be buffered, and the latency introduced by BT audio makes the experience unacceptable. Pianos that have BT audio support use it mainly for audio-in from another source so that the DP can be used as a BT speaker, rather than audio-out to BT headphones.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011046 08/07/20 05:02 AM
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Okay. No luck then. Have to wait for wired high-quality bone conduction earphones which should not be hard for those manufacturers.

Well, I still think piano players can take advantages from bone conduction earphones. Protecting hearing, let me add this one, by the way. But this is still too small a market to get attentions.

Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011051 08/07/20 05:27 AM
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Relevant review videos from the always excellent Techmoan:




Cheers,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011311 08/07/20 06:54 PM
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I have the Aeropex, and I find them suitable for long days of wall-to-wall video conference meetings. The sound is good enough, with a focus on voice-range mids. Themic is a little muffled, but not too bad.

I do not like them for any kind of music.


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Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
Yushi #3011545 08/08/20 12:54 PM
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The Aeropex has the same latency problem and the reviewer acknowledges as much when he tests them. He states they are only about a frame or two out of sync. While that may be OK for TV watching and zoom it will not be acceptable for piano use. As noted above TVs also have a way to buffer the video so it matches with the bluetooth. That is not useful with a piano because there really is no way to "buffer" you fingers. So even if the piano did buffering it still results in the odd feeling that the sound comes out a fraction of a second later than you fingers play it.

I have some ear complications that prevent the use of traditional headphones and I really wish someone would sell a high quality corded set but as noted above it is a very niche market.

Last edited by vidio; 08/08/20 12:59 PM.
Re: Try bone conduction earphone!
vidio #3011549 08/08/20 01:08 PM
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I like the way you phrased this ... smile
Originally Posted by vidio
... there really is no way to "buffer" your fingers.

BTW, this reminds me of a demonstration given in my college psych class.
The professor had a special rig ... home-made headphones with a pair of toilet plungers as earcups. Go figure!
And connected to a special amplifier.

The prof chose a pretty young thing from the front row to be "victim".
Handed a microphone and a sheet of printed text, she was instructed to read a paragraph from the page.

The "special amplifier" had a time-delay built in. The voice she heard from the headphones was her own ... delayed by a second or so.

Everyone in the auditorium heard the same sound over the PA. But from a distance you could not see her lips, so the PA voice sounded fine.

Except ... she couldn't get past the first word. Her voice was tangled up by the sonic delay. As soon as she began to speak she got stuck.
That's what latency does to the voice.

It does the same thing to the fingers playing the piano.
And it doesn't take much to foul things up. Latency of 20 msec is nasty.
And 30 msec is full tangle for me. Unplayable.


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