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Clicky Schimmels?
#3010902 08/06/20 04:56 PM
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My family might buy a good Schimmel upright eventually, but for now we will probably buy a U3. I like higher-end Schimmel uprights, but twice when I've tried a cheaper upright Schimmel, it seemed to have a 'clickiness' in the action? I am not even certain this is felt more as a sensation than as a sound.

At least it makes it feel like there's an escapement (?).

(And again, -how- can I learn to evaluate actions properly? I mean...)

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Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3010921 08/06/20 05:42 PM
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I can't imagine that even the cheapest Schimmel uprights, when correctly regulated, have a clickiness to the sound as this would be a deal breaker for most. You may feel something different from the pianos you're used to but that doesn't mean it's wrong. OTOH what you felt could be an regulation problem also.

Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3010922 08/06/20 05:43 PM
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I can't imagine that even the cheapest Schimmel uprights, when correctly regulated, have a clickiness to the sound as this would be a deal breaker for most. You may feel something different from the pianos you're used to but that doesn't mean it's wrong. OTOH what you felt could be an regulation problem also. It sounds to me like the escapement is more noticeable than what you're accustomed to.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/06/20 05:45 PM.
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3010929 08/06/20 06:00 PM
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I also encountered this in a Schimmel grand that I'm considering (circa 1993 model). The present owner said that from time to time one of the keys would develop a click and her technician would have to come fix it. Right now the very bottom note (A0) clicks; she said that the technician moved a part from the key that was clicking down to A0, and now A0 clicks. It's not a key you use very often, if at all, but the fact that other keys have developed a click from time to time concerns me. Unfortunately she didn't know the cause of the clicking. The point is that it's not an unheard of problem.

Last edited by Pianosearcher; 08/06/20 06:06 PM.
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
Pianosearcher #3010935 08/06/20 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianosearcher
I also encountered this in a Schimmel grand that I'm considering (circa 1993 model). The present owner said that from time to time one of the keys would develop a click and her technician would have to come fix it. Right now the very bottom note (A0) clicks; she said that the technician moved a part from the key that was clicking down to A0, and now A0 clicks. It's not a key you use very often, if at all, but the fact that other keys have developed a click from time to time concerns me. Unfortunately she didn't know the cause of the clicking. The point is that it's not an unheard of problem.
It clearly sounds like the tech didn't really fix the problem. He didn't have a replacement part so transferred the problem to a rarely used note by interchanging parts. Schimmel is an excellent piano maker and it's really inconceivable that a new and correctly regulated Schimmel would have a problem that would a deal breaker. A 27 year old piano from any maker, even the best ones on the planet, could develop a problem in one of its action parts.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/06/20 06:37 PM.
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3010940 08/06/20 06:58 PM
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It’s just a pretty standard issue, German Renner action, unless you’re talking about one of the sub lines (depending on era).


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Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3010974 08/06/20 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It clearly sounds like the tech didn't really fix the problem.

I agree at least as far as whatever key was clicking that involved swapping a part with A0. The concerning thing is that the owner says the clicking has developed in a number of different keys over the years. To my knowledge Schimmel never used teflon bushings, so that's not the source of the problem.

Last edited by Pianosearcher; 08/06/20 08:38 PM.
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011014 08/07/20 12:41 AM
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I think the information on this thread is so vague as to be meaningless. The OP talks about clicking on two Schimmels but then says its not a clicking sound but more like a "clicking feel". What's that supposed to mean?? It could be some regulation problem or just something that feels different than what the poster is used to but is not a problem. If it's a problem it could be a one minute fix.

Then a second poster talks about a piano they are considering with a clicking sound but the tech didn't fix the problem(and maybe didn't fix the problem when clicks occurred earlier on "a number" of keys"...how many?). And neither the owner nor potential buyer found out what was causing the clicks. We have no idea how many keys had clicks(it could be as few as two) and what the cause was or even if the tech doing the work on the piano knew what they were doing. The potential buyer needs to get a inspection by an independent tech. Right now any real information is completely lacking.

Any kind of generalization some general clicking problem in Schimmels makes little sense at this point. The first case wasn't really a click, and we have too little information about the problem in the second piano to reach any conclusion.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/07/20 12:46 AM.
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011099 08/07/20 09:07 AM
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At first I wasn't going to respond, but on second thought I probably should, in order to be as clear as possible about the intent of my posts in this thread and the situation with the piano I'm looking at.

First, my initial post was intended only to say that the clicking problem reported by the OP is unlikely to be an imaginary problem. I myself have seen & heard this clicking problem, and it happens to also be on a Schimmel. Had it been a 1962-1982 Steinway with teflon bushings I wouldn't have been surprised; but it was on a Schimmel. I was surprised to read from the OP that someone else had encountered a similar problem on a Schimmel. I think Schimmels are among the best pianos in the world but that doesn't mean they never develop problems.

Second, I have inspected the Schimmel grand myself and I can attest that the clicking sound on A0 is real. The owner is a pianist, not a technician, and she reported to me that 6-8 different keys have developed this same clicking over some years (1 at a time) and her technician has fixed it every time. The last time, for unexplained reasons, he moved some part from the offending key down to A0, which is why A0 now clicks when you play it. I have also spoken at length with the technician himself (and he's a competent, well known RPT) and he did not seem willing to explain either the cause or the fix. So I am left with unanswered questions about the piano. I am in the process of arranging for my own technician to inspect the piano before I make up my mind whether or not to make an offer. I have no interest in buying into a piano that has known but unexplained problems.

Last edited by Pianosearcher; 08/07/20 09:11 AM.
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011141 08/07/20 11:49 AM
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To the OP and Pianosearcher - have you considered posting this question on the Piano Technician Forum? Someone there might have seen a similar problem and figured out a fix. I do love Schimmels and all the ones I tried had a Renner action.


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Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011172 08/07/20 01:08 PM
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There are several things in general, on any piano, that can make an unwanted clicking sound.
- Loose hammer head
- Key top is unsticking
- Loose Hammer Flange Screw
- Loose Wippen Screw


If it is a screw, check other screws once the action is out, since it is likely it has occurred due to humidity change.

I have played many Schimmel pianos, new and old, and they are excellent pianos in my book.

Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011358 08/07/20 09:04 PM
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FWIW, I’m the first and only owner of a 1989 Schimmel Grand and have never experienced any clicking noises. I agree with above poster to ask about it on the piano technicians forum.



Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011387 08/08/20 12:59 AM
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I tried a new 120 (tradition,classic) model Schimmel in the dealer here in Vancouver.It was a lovely
instrument and no .,there was no clicking in the action at all.In fact it was a very musical piano.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/08/20 01:00 AM. Reason: spelling
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011439 08/08/20 07:31 AM
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Any piano, new or old, can need regulation for clicks or another problem. Any piano maker, including the absolutely most prestigious, can and has produced a few pianos with problems that will be covered under warranty. Any dealer can not adequately prep a piano. Any piano can need a few replacement parts after 26 years.

But the idea that a piano of the quality of a new Schimmel could routinely have clicks is frankly absurd. I don't understand why anyone could think this is a possibility since it would be a deal breaker for a sale.

Re: Clicky Schimmels?
pianoloverus #3011447 08/08/20 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Any piano, new or old, can need regulation for clicks or another problem. Any piano maker, including the absolutely most prestigious, can and has produced a few pianos with problems that will be covered under warranty. Any dealer can not adequately prep a piano. Any piano can need a few replacement parts after 26 years.

But the idea that a piano of the quality of a new Schimmel could routinely have clicks is frankly absurd. I don't understand why anyone could think this is a possibility since it would be a deal breaker for a sale.

Pianoloverus, you are absolutely right.

However, there is another side to the coin of perception.

The perception being that high-end, reputable, brand name, incredibly expensive pianos always fall into the category of "you get what you pay for". Well, that philosophy (you always get what you pay for) is not always true; no, you don't always get what you pay for.

I've played some very high-end, highly reputable, brand name pianos only to come away shaking my head in disappointment thinking to myself, maybe I just held these brands in too high of an esteem and my expectations were too high.

No, a new, or even later model, Schimmel piano, grand or upright, should not have clicking keys. But it is possible, and it does happen. Can it be fixed? Sure it can, but it can also dissuade a potential customer from paying big bucks for it, and change their perception of the brand forever. And, causes them to post a thread on PW about clicky Schimmels.

Just my .02.

Rick


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Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011467 08/08/20 09:24 AM
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I never noticed any clickyness in the schimmels i tried.

Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011550 08/08/20 01:09 PM
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Actually I have never in my entire life played any piano that clicked.My Kawai grand bought new in 1966 ,crossed the equautor in 2001 with my old U1 to land in Canada. Neither had clicks or any noticeable problems.Both were regulated and checked a few months later.I used those pianos for another 19 years.
Fortunately my Sauter bought in 2018 has had no problems with anything like regulation. It holds its tuning so well I could only have it tuned only once a year.However If one buys any new piano it must be extremely frustrating if there is a consistent problem like this.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/08/20 01:12 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3011880 08/09/20 11:47 AM
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Actually it does not have to be a high end piano. A Yamaha G1 Yamaha grand costs quite a few thousand $ ,never mind a CX1 .You should be able to expect a trouble free piano.
I do not often hear about serious problems here with European pianos unless its something shocking like a crack in the soundboard.I remember once reading about one incident and the piano was replaced.This was a descent thing to do !
Recently I have read about problems with quite a few Kawai GX grands which is disturbing since ,especially since like Yamaha they have always made such excellent pianos.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/09/20 11:49 AM. Reason: spelling
Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3016274 08/21/20 12:30 PM
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Thank you all for looking at this.

Perhaps I will relocate my question there, although I am not in a hurry on this issue.

The upright was likely somewhat used, and although this happened twice, it is quite possibly the same upright both times.

I am largely, but I am doing it in part because I question my ability to pick piano actions. The clicking was a distraction, but it was consistent enough and the action otherwise was consistent enough that it worked fine as far as I could tell...
but it really is distracting.
So it's probably not an ideal thing, but...

Re: Clicky Schimmels?
winterflower #3016293 08/21/20 01:01 PM
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I could be remembering all wrong but some models of Schimmel are/were built in China?

Last edited by K8KT; 08/21/20 01:03 PM.
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