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NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
#3010499 08/05/20 02:06 PM
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Apologies if this is a double post...

The audio over USB function is not working on my NC2x.

Can somebody please confirm whether "Numa" should show up as an "audio source" in a DAW or Kontakt?

My DAW is Presonus SO4

If so, then apparently my Numa C2x is defective, as this is not present.

Thank you...

- Jeff


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010501 08/05/20 02:15 PM
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Is the Numa Compact seen in the audio menu of Windows ?

See https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/articles/1820465/


Perhaps you need an ASIO driver (ASIO4ALL if none are given with it).


Is the Numa Compact seen in the device manager ?


Note : Numa C2X is hard to Google... why not use its plain name « Numa Compact 2X » ?

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/05/20 02:25 PM.

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Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010509 08/05/20 02:30 PM
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1. Windows: yes, I can select the Numa for both audio in and out and did so.

2. Device manager: I'll check this... have to set the Numa up later today (I have to move it out into the yard to play).

3. I should clarify - Last night, Spotify started playing through the Numa - so part of the audio in over USB works (it was my song that started playing - I didn't know why!).

4. What I want to use the Numa for here is to play VST or Pianotec through the Numa's speakers. I use my Presonus Studio One 4 DAW or the stand-alone Kontakt (for VST pianos) or the stand-alone Pianotec. The Numa does NOT show up in any of these ... is it supposed to? What oddly DOES show up are 4 different "studio" audio interfaces, none of which I own (and none of which work).

Thanks,

- Jeff


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010513 08/05/20 02:36 PM
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With Kontakt (standalone), you have 2 choices in the File/Options/Audio dialog : ASIO and WASAPI (shared). The second would induce latency. The first need an ASIO driver like ASIO4ALL.

Pianoteq has a Windows exclusive mode which can be used.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/05/20 02:38 PM.

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Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010518 08/05/20 02:50 PM
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Audio over USB requires installing special drivers. It’s not a standardized thing that would just work. The drivers are probably available at Studiologic website.

P.S. Studioligic website says I’m wrong and you don’t need drivers. Hmm...

Last edited by CyberGene; 08/05/20 02:53 PM.

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Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010533 08/05/20 03:32 PM
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I usually use my Konkakt Complete audio interface; it works great.

The thing is, the Numa C2x is supposed to have it's OWN, internal audio interface! So, just one USB cable connected to the computer works both ways.... And Pianotec, etc. will sound through the Numa's speakers (there is no "audio in" port on the Numa).

This internal, "Numa" audio interface does not show up in Personus Studio One 4, Kontakt or Pianotec. My Kontakt Komplete does.

right, apparently no additional drivers are needed...


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010540 08/05/20 04:19 PM
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The Komplete audio interface is sold with ASIO drivers. If no ASIO driver are available, just download ASIO4ALL.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010544 08/05/20 04:40 PM
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The point is to NOT use the Konkatk Komplete interface and instead use the internal one in the Numa. There is no "audio in" on the Numa - so to use the internal speakers, I cannot use the KK interface.


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3010920 08/06/20 05:38 PM
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I have a NC2 (no X), Pianoteq works very well when using it as audio interface.
I use Linux, it simply shows up under the audio devices.
For windows I had to set up asio4all.
You select asio4all as output and in the asio4all panel you select the NC2(X) as output.

Tested standalone and with Ardour (Linux)

Last edited by mrroland; 08/06/20 05:40 PM. Reason: Fixed typo and added clarification
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
mrroland #3011029 08/07/20 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mrroland
I have a NC2 (no X), Pianoteq works very well when using it as audio interface.
I use Linux, it simply shows up under the audio devices.
For windows I had to set up asio4all.
You select asio4all as output and in the asio4all panel you select the NC2(X) as output.

Tested standalone and with Ardour (Linux)

Thank you!

I don't know whether the "X" matters for this particular issue, but if I understand your post correctly, the Numa's built-in audio interface DOES function as intended with Linux, but does NOT with windows: it requires (ugh, gasp!) ASIO4ALL.

I personally cannot stand ASIO4ALL. One would think a true, internal, multi-source audio interface could be developed in all these years... Or at least one with a GUI that actually functions and makes sense...

The whole point of an internal audio interface is not having to use a box (Kontakt Komplete in my case). My super portable set-up isn't possible with a box.

I wonder why it works in Linux but not Windows? (I use Win 10).

Thank you VERY MUCH for clearing this up! Now, I guess I'll have to find the tiniest interface. M-Audio made one named "Transit" years ago.

- Jeff


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3011041 08/07/20 04:22 AM
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The issue is that Windows did only propose an audio API which can mix other applications, but then induce some latency. Then Steinberg had to add an API, ASIO and you need an ASIO driver if you want an ASIO application to run.

Nowadays, Windows propose WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API) which can work bypassing the mixer in an exclusive mode, and then obtain low latency. But you need your application to be adapted to work in this mode. Reaper does support WASAPI exclusive mode. Kontakt does only support WASAPI shared mode. Cubase will surely only support ASIO but propose a generic ASIO driver.

Then, nothing has to evolve in Windows, only applications need to use the exclusive WASAPI mode.

-

Linux is different, since they had proposed a quite direct API (OSS, then ALSA), and afterward proposed sound servers which can mix the sound from different application. (Pulse Audio, Jack, etc). I suppose you have some incompatibilies (a jack software won’t work with Pulse Audio).

-

What is wrong with ASIO4ALL ? It is simply a driver which convert an API (ASIO) into other (WDM streaming ?). Something of the same nature than the pulseaudio-module-jack of Linux.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/07/20 04:30 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Frédéric L #3011054 08/07/20 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The issue is that Windows did only propose an audio API which can mix other applications, but then induce some latency. Then Steinberg had to add an API, ASIO and you need an ASIO driver if you want an ASIO application to run.

Nowadays, Windows propose WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API) which can work bypassing the mixer in an exclusive mode, and then obtain low latency. But you need your application to be adapted to work in this mode. Reaper does support WASAPI exclusive mode. Kontakt does only support WASAPI shared mode. Cubase will surely only support ASIO but propose a generic ASIO driver.

Then, nothing has to evolve in Windows, only applications need to use the exclusive WASAPI mode.

-

Linux is different, since they had proposed a quite direct API (OSS, then ALSA), and afterward proposed sound servers which can mix the sound from different application. (Pulse Audio, Jack, etc). I suppose you have some incompatibilies (a jack software won’t work with Pulse Audio).

-

What is wrong with ASIO4ALL ? It is simply a driver which convert an API (ASIO) into other (WDM streaming ?). Something of the same nature than the pulseaudio-module-jack of Linux.

I simply cannot stand the ASIO4ALL interface. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. On top of that, it usually does not work at all. I just don't "get" it. And it's only one input application. Why can't somebody design something better? I even tried something called "Flex" that supposedly supported multiple inputs, but it didn't work either.

The thing that totally confuses me about the Numa is that it's supposed to have its OWN audio interface, built right in. It's not supposed to require ASIO4ALL, a box, or anything. So that's quite disappointing to me. Then again, the speakers are not all that great anyway. Still, it would be nice to be really portable.


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3011072 08/07/20 07:30 AM
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You misunderstand the role of ASIO.

ASIO is a driver for Windows. It's necessary because the native audio software in Windows sucks. (There's a more accurate and detailed explanation ... but it doesn't matter. It just stinks when you're performing.)

So you get an ASIO driver ... and in your piano software or DAW your choose ASIO audio instead of the Windows audio.

The ASIO handles buffering in a better way. You can adjust the buffer size to suit your computer. You want the smallest possible buffer size ... so long as the audio doesn't click or pop.

Some ASIO drivers specify the buffer size in bytes. Some specify milliseconds. The two measurements are proportional. Regardless, you want the lowest setting that works for you.

The fact that the Numa has an audio interface is not at all relevant. If you are generating piano sounds on a Windows PC, you will need an ASIO driver for the PC.

Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3011076 08/07/20 07:46 AM
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My understanding is that Numa is USB Class Compliant and can be used with anything which supports the standard USB audio protocol.

You should not have trouble with Mac : its Core Audio stack supports USB audio and is supported by usual applications.

On Windows, WASAPI supports USB audio but is not used by many applications because it has arrived too late. Then you need something to fill the gap between the Windows driver and ASIO : it is ASIO4ALL. You can try Reaper and WASAPI in exclusive mode.

I don’t know about flex (such a common word is difficult to Google), but the idea behind exclusive mode is too avoid a mixer path and reduce the latency. Jack is available on Windows and should permit multiple applications, but you have not many applications which are compatible.


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Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3011085 08/07/20 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
The thing that totally confuses me about the Numa is that it's supposed to have its OWN audio interface, built right in. It's not supposed to require ASIO4ALL, a box, or anything.
Every audio interface (whether built into a keyboard or not) requires a driver (i.e. low level software installed on the computer in order to communicate with the interface). If something uses WASAPI, this requirement is invisible, because the driver has already been supplied by Microsoft. So it doesn't mean the device didn't need a driver... it did, you just didn't realize it because the needed driver was already installed in your computer. But some things require ASIO instead of WASAPI. Which all gets back to this exchange;
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
I usually use my Konkakt Complete audio interface; it works great.
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The Komplete audio interface is sold with ASIO drivers. If no ASIO driver are available, just download ASIO4ALL.
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
The point is to NOT use the Konkatk Komplete interface and instead use the internal one in the Numa.
Frederic was not suggesting using the Kontakt interface. He was saying that your KC interface works great because they've already supplied the ASIO driver it needs, and that your solution is to use ASIO for the Numa as well... one supplied by Numa if they have one (as Kontakt did), or ASIO4ALL if they don't. (At least that's how I read it.) Whether the interface circuitry is in its own box or built into the box that is your keyboard makes no difference, it always needs a driver, whethere the standard WASAPI, their own customized driver (i.e. an ASIO variant), of the ASIO4ALL (a generic ASIO that can be used with gear that doesn't supply its own).

There's some good info at http://donyaquick.com/minimizing-audio-latency-on-windows-10-with-wasapi/

Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3011092 08/07/20 08:44 AM
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Since you use Studio One, read https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210050363-Studio-One-3-Audio-Device-Setup

Especially :

Quote
Studio One supports most audio devices, including ASIO, Core Audio (Mac OS X), and WASAPI (Windows) devices.

When using a WASAPI audio device in Windows, note that WASAPI offers Exclusive and Shared modes of operation. In Exclusive mode, lower latency can be achieved, but other applications (such as Windows Media Player) cannot use the audio device at the same time.

Refer to the Windows Control Panel/Hardware and Sound/Sound to configure the options for your WASAPI device.


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Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
MacMacMac #3011266 08/07/20 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You misunderstand the role of ASIO.

ASIO is a driver for Windows. It's necessary because the native audio software in Windows sucks. (There's a more accurate and detailed explanation ... but it doesn't matter. It just stinks when you're performing.)

So you get an ASIO driver ... and in your piano software or DAW your choose ASIO audio instead of the Windows audio.

The ASIO handles buffering in a better way. You can adjust the buffer size to suit your computer. You want the smallest possible buffer size ... so long as the audio doesn't click or pop.

Some ASIO drivers specify the buffer size in bytes. Some specify milliseconds. The two measurements are proportional. Regardless, you want the lowest setting that works for you.

The fact that the Numa has an audio interface is not at all relevant. If you are generating piano sounds on a Windows PC, you will need an ASIO driver for the PC.

Yes, I use ASIO, set at 128. I use Kontakt Komplete. My DAW (Presonus) lets me chose my audio interface, driver, whatever it is - Kontakt Komplete. It is my understanding that I am supposed to see, and be able to choose, in my DAW, "Numa."

Am I incorrect? What "ASIO" is "in" my Kontakt Komplete? I DO see several "new" "Studio" choices - is one of them the Numa (none of them work...).

In short, isn't the ASIO "in" my Kontakt Komplete? If so, why isn't there a siilar ASIO "in" the Numa?

I hope that makes sense! Thank you for your advice!

- Jeff


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
anotherscott #3011272 08/07/20 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
The thing that totally confuses me about the Numa is that it's supposed to have its OWN audio interface, built right in. It's not supposed to require ASIO4ALL, a box, or anything.
Every audio interface (whether built into a keyboard or not) requires a driver (i.e. low level software installed on the computer in order to communicate with the interface). If something uses WASAPI, this requirement is invisible, because the driver has already been supplied by Microsoft. So it doesn't mean the device didn't need a driver... it did, you just didn't realize it because the needed driver was already installed in your computer. But some things require ASIO instead of WASAPI. Which all gets back to this exchange;
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
I usually use my Konkakt Complete audio interface; it works great.
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The Komplete audio interface is sold with ASIO drivers. If no ASIO driver are available, just download ASIO4ALL.
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
The point is to NOT use the Konkatk Komplete interface and instead use the internal one in the Numa.
Frederic was not suggesting using the Kontakt interface. He was saying that your KC interface works great because they've already supplied the ASIO driver it needs, and that your solution is to use ASIO for the Numa as well... one supplied by Numa if they have one (as Kontakt did), or ASIO4ALL if they don't. (At least that's how I read it.) Whether the interface circuitry is in its own box or built into the box that is your keyboard makes no difference, it always needs a driver, whethere the standard WASAPI, their own customized driver (i.e. an ASIO variant), of the ASIO4ALL (a generic ASIO that can be used with gear that doesn't supply its own).

There's some good info at http://donyaquick.com/minimizing-audio-latency-on-windows-10-with-wasapi/


Thank you, Another Scott! You own a Numa, what do you do?

If I understand this correctly (which is probably not the case...), my Kontakt Komplete has an ASIO driver contained within its 4 walls. Does the Numa? Giannia of Studiologic seemed to say so (translation issues?), and that it should "show up" as a choice in my DAW (which it does not).

I use ASIO. I've never had any luck with the WASAPI choice. So I'm still stuck with ASIO4ALL (which I also have little luck with)?

FWIW, I get odd "space blips" from the NUMA when connecting it to my iPad. Is this normal?

Thanks,

- Jeff


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Frédéric L #3011278 08/07/20 05:20 PM
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Thank you. I use a Lenovo Yoga Windows 10 computer with 16 gig RAM, etc.

I've never had luck with WASAPI. I just use ASIO with my Kontakt Komplete.


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: NUMA COMPACT 2X - Audio Over USB Not Working
Skyscrapersax #3011287 08/07/20 05:43 PM
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“ I've never had luck with WASAPI. ” what do you mean by no luck ?

Does Studio One permit you to select WASAPI exclusive mode ? Is the Numa seen ? Is the result satisfying ? Why not ? Which settings (buffer length, sample rate)


Note : I insist on Studio One. Kontakt seems to only support a shared mode, then higher latency, but (if you pay enough : Artist and an extension), Studio One can embed Kontakt as a VST plug-in.


What do you mean by within its 4 walls ? Komplete Audio (not Kontakt Komplete) is sold with an ASIO driver which is installed on the PC. The Numa is sold with no drivers, since the integrated Microsoft driver is compatible (thanks to the USB Class Compliancy), but this driver is not ASIO since Microsoft promotes WASAPI. (I suppose this from the absence of driver on their site, the USB compliancy on https://m.thomann.de/fr/studiologic_numa_compact_2x.htm and the fact that you don’t see ASIO driver).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/07/20 05:51 PM.

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