2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
41 members (CLM Piano Learner, 36251, cmb13, bounced, ElaineAllegro, Craig Richards, dng, ee375, 8 invisible), 428 guests, and 331 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
#3010188 08/04/20 02:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 345
D
Davdoc Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 345
I am actually asking on behalf of a good friend of my wife's. She is professionally trained but is not currently concertizing. Her husband is a diplomat from an Asian country, so they move once every few years. When they can eventually be more settled in one place, which will still be several years away, she would like to upgrade her piano that has been traveling with them, which I believe is a Yamaha grand with the silent function (likely from an earlier generation), to a used or rebuilt Hamburg Steinway. She will take time to look for it.

She is aware that for any non-new pianos, tech inspection will be essential. For her, the question is where to look. They can literally be in any continent depending on where they are stationed. As far as I can tell, with just modest/ordinary knowledge of used markets, US arguably still has the most robust used markets, with more visible online presence of info sites (like PianoBuyer), sales sites (like PianoMart), reputable rebuilders (many being here), even a world-wide forum like Pianoworld is heavily represented by US entities. She won't skip the US resources, but admittedly if her dream (her own word) is to get a Hamburg Steinway, these are harder to come by in US.

Where else should she look into, being in Europe, Asia, or others?


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
(ad int) Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Davdoc #3010199 08/04/20 03:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,558
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,558
I’m certainly no expert but if she’s in Europe, that’s would be the best place to find Steinway Hamburg or any of several high end German pianos. Prices seem to be somewhat lower in Europe and the UK.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
Life is too short to not have a great piano.
[Linked Image]
Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Davdoc #3010207 08/04/20 04:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
O
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Germany, Switzerland and Austria are the countries in Europe where chances are good to find a really well restored (not rebuilt) Hamburg Steinway at a reasonable price. Here in Vienna I could immediately point out about 10 really good, older Steinways ranging from A to D at prices that are really a lot lower than in the US. And all of them come with the original soundboards and bridges and Renner hammers.

Last edited by OE1FEU; 08/04/20 04:17 PM.
Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Davdoc #3010224 08/04/20 05:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,332
L
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,332
Verhnjak Pianos are excellent .My technician told me he restored the old Steinways Hamburg for the Vancouver Symphony orchestra.Apparently the restoration was so good the instrument is almost better than the newly bought Hamburg piano.He is in Surrey, Vancouver.
If she is going to be living in Europe though I agree it probably would be easier to buy a restored Hamburg Steinways there.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/04/20 05:05 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Davdoc #3010722 08/06/20 08:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,162
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,162
Transporting ivory may become an issue.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Davdoc #3010786 08/06/20 11:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 832
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 832
Outside of the US, you won't find fully rebuilt pianos with a few exceptions.

In Europe you can get ivory with a certificate to ship to anywhere in the EU without problem, but not outside the EU

Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Steve Jackson #3010822 08/06/20 01:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 34
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
Outside of the US, you won't find fully rebuilt pianos with a few exceptions.

In Europe you can get ivory with a certificate to ship to anywhere in the EU without problem, but not outside the EU

You can get fully rebuilt Steinways, Bluthners and other makes from Piano Restorations UK.

If they want a new action (which I would have thought would be the expectation in a full rebuild) then ivory shouldn't need to be an issue.

Last edited by etherline; 08/06/20 01:11 PM.
Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Steve Jackson #3010851 08/06/20 02:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,592
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,592
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
Outside of the US, you won't find fully rebuilt pianos with a few exceptions.

In Europe you can get ivory with a certificate to ship to anywhere in the EU without problem, but not outside the EU

...and there are quite a few exceptions now:

Piano Restorations Ltd in the UK do a full rebuild service, and are thoroughly able to do all makes. They're one of the official restoration centres for Blüthners. They replace soundboards, bridges, pinblocks, actions, keyboards, depending on what exactly needs done. All pianos they offer for sale are generally fully rebuilt with everything replaced including the soundboard. Steinways are rebuilt with Hamburg actions and keyboards. For comparison, a fully rebuilt Hamburg Steinway B will probably cost you something in the region of £40,000 to £45,000, depending on a few factors. Older "cores" are cheaper to buy, newer cores are more expensive, but honestly in a full rebuild you don't need to worry too much about whether it was a 1910 or 1970, you just need to worry if you like the piano. Blüthners and Bechsteins tend to be about £25,000 to £35,000.

There are a couple of other workshops in the UK offering a "full rebuild" service, but on closer inspection they're offering something more like a conservation service, and try to retain the original soundboard at all costs. Personally I don't have an opinion regarding soundboard replacement except to say my pianos have new boards and sound wonderful. I know someone on the forum is having a Steinway D rebuilt by a workshop who isn't Piano Restorations, and they ordered a Ciresa soundboard built to pattern for the piano, which the technician is installing. This is quite an unusual way to do it but not unheard of.

Steinway and Sons Hamburg offer fully rebuilt pianos and a comprehensive rebuilding service including soundboard and pin block replacement. Recently they've offered a few instruments for sale with the original board conserved, so technically it's more of a reconditioning than a rebuilding, but they are equipped to replace soundboards in the factory. A rebuilt Steinway purchased from Steinway will cost as much as 90 to 95 percent of the price of a new one. If the piano has a wood veneer like original Rio Rosewood, the piano is usually more expensive than a new black model, or at least that was the case a few years ago. They may have stopped this practice.

Blüthner UK offer rebuilt pianos and offer to rebuild pianos through two sources: their partners at Piano Restorations UK or through their Leipzig factory. The results are slightly different from each factory, Piano Restorations strives to restore the original sound of an early-mid 20th century Blüthner (and Colin has worked their long enough to have seen the new mid century instruments!), and the Leipzig factory tend to return the piano with a more modern voicing on it, but you can ask them to give it the traditional voice if you prefer.

The workshops in Poland such as SAP Renovation are growing in reputation and quality. They're also increasing in price. They will do full soundboard and pin block replacement. Sometimes their final preparation work isn't that good - or at least it wasn't a few years ago - but it's now at the stage where a good technician could regulate and voice the work they do and it would have a good result. SAP Renovation is probably the best Polish company.

C. Bechstein in Berlin now offer full rebuilding for Bechstein and other pianos at their Czech factory. This information is on their website. They will do a full soundboard, plank, action replacement.

Bösendorfer offer a full comprehensive rebuilding service. It's not on their website but you can arrange it through Yamaha London or presumably by calling Vienna directly. It might be that if you're in the USA, Bösendorfer would recommend going to Rich Galassini for a rebuilt Bösendorfer - and actually a trip to his workshop would be a good idea anyway if it's a rebuild you want to go for.

Steve Jackson is right that in many places in Europe including the UK, conservative restoration was always more common. Pinblocks (wrest planks in the UK!) were often retained, soundboards shimmed and filled and not often that well, and original actions fitted with new hammers. Of course there is a case to be made for retaining the original actions on some pianos, particularly those of a more historical interest (this post isn't about that anyway), but the industry is changing in Europe. More people are competing at a higher level than before, which is only a good thing for the industry. I've seen even the best rebuilders say they have to raise their game. Prices aren't cheap, but the quality is really very good.

Keyboards aren't always replaced when a new action is fitted, but many times they are, and even if the original keyboard is retained, having new non-ivory coverings put on is always an option for exporting instruments. Ivory pre-1970 isn't so difficult to export but you might want to have it replaced to save customs ripping it off in the port.

By the way if you can get a New York Steinway restored in the right way and set up by the right technician, it will be as good as a Hamburg, so don't rule out the NY Steinway particularly if you live in America anyway.

Personally if I'm shopping in that price bracket I'd also look at some new pianos. I wouldn't rule out a Yamaha SX series piano, for example, since they have a voice which is actually kind of similar to a fine rebuilt piano, but they have all the advantages of a new instrument. They're not cheap, but they're not the most expensive pianos on the market either so they're worth considering.

Re: Used/Rebuilt piano markets outside US
Davdoc #3011106 08/07/20 09:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 345
D
Davdoc Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 345
Thank you all for the great advice!


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Favorite mass?
by chopinetto - 09/23/20 06:51 PM
Dilemma-help
by Cutec - 09/23/20 05:35 PM
Vose & Sons Serial Number(s)
by piperbill - 09/23/20 05:03 PM
Buying first piano - Kawai 506n
by hmm2135 - 09/23/20 03:45 PM
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics201,783
Posts3,006,179
Members98,650
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4