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Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
#3009426 Yesterday at 09:41 AM
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Hi all, just a question regarding the comparison between the Schimmel W118 and the Yamaha U1 (looking at the price possibly a better comparison than the B3 I was initially considering). Has anyone had experience with both/either pianos, if so what are your experiences and which would be a better choice. I realise that the U1 is a very well known and more popular piano in comparison to the Wilhelm series of the Schimmel which may have less recognition but does this ultimately lead to better quality? I’m personally not so sure, I also realise this is entirely subjective but would like some pointers on which direction to go in. Alternatively if anyone has any other suggestions of pianos I should try in that price range, I would appreciate recommendations, what do people think of the W. Hoffman which I have personally never played?

Many thanks

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Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009497 Yesterday at 01:11 PM
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It depends on what pianos you have tried and most enjoy.The U1 is an enduring "classic" Japanese upright.Saying that however please buy one that you have tried a number of times. One that has been in the store for a while. So it has settled down ,had numerous tunings and has been prepped.(I speak from experience)
The W Schimmel has German parts and an action parts made in China.It is assembled in Poland.I do not know if it has a Renner action like many of the other European pianos.It may be a good choice I do not know.
However looking at the price of the W Schimmel I see you could probably afford a K500 Kawai or
a Yamaha U3.These would be my choice if the W Schimmel did not have Renner action and ,Renner or Abel Hammers.
Have you tried Boston (performance edition )uprights ? These have a rather mellow tone.They are designed by Steinway but made by Kawai .They are not Kawai pianos and sound rather differently to Kawai instruments.

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009502 Yesterday at 01:37 PM
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Many thanks for your reply. I will try the U1 and the W118 again as well as the K500 and see, I have tried the K300 but was not particularly impressed in comparison to the other two. Personally I am currently leaning towards the U1 but that’s all subject to change. Thanks for your advice. I have also been advised that Chinese parts in a piano are not desirable but I am unsure whether this is a bit of snobbery or factually based, particularly in terms of resale value. I must admit though that I doubt any piano in my price range will be completely German or Japanese parts. The Yamaha does seem to have the best reputation though, is this reflected in the resale value?

Thanks

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009508 Yesterday at 01:48 PM
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A U3 is a very nice instrument if you want a Yamaha piano.As far as I know both the U3 and the K500 are both made in Japan. However if the W Schimmel has stolen your heart........
I see the Schimmel is finished off in Germany which is good.

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009511 Yesterday at 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cl@ssical
The Yamaha does seem to have the best reputation though, is this reflected in the resale value?

Yes, i'd say so. But a Schimmel will have great resale value as well.

But more important than reputation and resale value is probably if you like the piano. I would certainly buy the piano you like the most in tone and touch.

I actually went after a u3 for reputation reasons as well, i didn't know anything about piano's back then and I had not tried anything really either. I guess I got lucky, because I have no regrets. Sometimes I go to piano dealers and most of the time I can't find an upright I like better than my own. Certainly not in the same price range.

The only brand (out of what I tried) that has raised my interest when it comes to uprights is actually schimmel. If I would search for an upright now I could possibly end up with a schimmel, they do have a lovely tone, quite different than Yamaha, both nice, but i'd recommend to figure out what you like the most.

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009512 Yesterday at 02:00 PM
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Are you aware that all new pianos significantly drop their value the minute they leave the showroom? Please buy the piano you would like to play — then you won’t have regrets about what is sitting in your living room for years. The point to buying is not as an ‘investment ‘ or ‘resale’ but the one that will make you smile to play it. Schimmel, Yamaha and Kawai are all good brands: buy the piano that speaks to you.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009535 Yesterday at 03:14 PM
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I think there are really rather few failures with buying a good new piano at this level. The "failure aspect" is often more psychological like "I bought a new U1 because its good" not that I particularly liked the instrument. (that actually happened to me once)
However I take dogperson's point and agree you should look at some used pianos as well.
You may find a real treasure for a much lower price ! You would definitely have to have these checked by a technician.
On the other hand you may want to aim a little higher and buy a C 118 Schimmel.(if they have one that size )

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009537 Yesterday at 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cl@ssical
The Yamaha does seem to have the best reputation though, is this reflected in the resale value?
Schimmel is not so well known in the U.S. but is very popular in Europe. So reputation depends on one's location.

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
pianoloverus #3009543 Yesterday at 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Cl@ssical
The Yamaha does seem to have the best reputation though, is this reflected in the resale value?
Schimmel is not so well known in the U.S. but is very popular in Europe. So reputation depends on one's location.
True ,You will find piano dealers all know about Schimmel though and so you could always trade the piano in if you wish to upgrade.

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
dogperson #3009544 Yesterday at 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Classical
Are you aware that all new pianos significantly drop their value the minute they leave the showroom? Please buy the piano you would like to play — then you won’t have regrets about what is sitting in your living room for years. The point to buying is not as an ‘investment ‘ or ‘resale’ but the one that will make you smile to play it. Schimmel, Yamaha and Kawai are all good brands: buy the piano that speaks to you.

2nd


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Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009566 Yesterday at 04:38 PM
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Thank you all, I have schedule another appointment to really try out these pianos and will take all the advice on board. Side question, is it necessary to see the exact new piano you are interested in buying before you purchase or is trying one or two of the particular models enough, I realise there are variations between pianos even in the same model but just wondering how significant these are especially with a brand like Yamaha. Thanks

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009575 Yesterday at 05:23 PM
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Play the exact piano you intend to buy. Photograph the serial number to be sure. Almost nobody has tried all the new pianos you’re listing, as that Schimmel is a fairly recent model, if memory serves.

Tone, touch, price, size, dealer experience, warranty support, appearance, and prestige are factors that I consider when buying a piano, in roughly that order of importance. When I shop for a piano, I’m not particularly brand loyal and I’m usually considering more than two options.


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Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009578 Yesterday at 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Cl@ssical
Side question, is it necessary to see the exact new piano you are interested in buying before you purchase or is trying one or two of the particular models enough, I realise there are variations between pianos even in the same model but just wondering how significant these are especially with a brand like Yamaha. Thanks

Ideally - You want the exact piano You played at the dealer

Some brands vary more/less than others, but each piano is a unique instrument

If You find One on the showroom floor that does It for You - Take that One home. No guarantee a different instrument of the same make/model will be the same

Great Luck!


~Lucubrate


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“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009597 Yesterday at 06:11 PM
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I can only think of a few reasons, and not such good ones, for buying a piano that you haven't tried out at a dealer.

1. You want a model that can only be special ordered usually because it's a special case design or a finish that's unusual. I think this almost always means you have to take it although I guess some dealers will allow you to choose another similarly priced piano they have in stock.

2. The dealer has a policy that allows you to return a piano within a given time frame if you don't like it. The only dealers I've seen with a policy like that are some rebuilders who want to attract nationwide buyers.

My guess is a fairly high percentage of people purchase pianos without trying them first but that may be because they don't realize even pianos of the same make and model can sound/feel different. Or maybe they think they can't hear or feel the differences. Some cultures prefer to buy piano straight out of the crate.

Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
pianoloverus #3009648 Yesterday at 08:05 PM
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Pianoloverus - exactly right. I just really find it hard to order a piano sight unseen and unplayed. I know people order SUV or trucks completely online with out a test drive but I want something that I can test drive and kick tires. I wanna play my repertoire and some physically challenging pieces. But I do know keeping a big selection of nice pianos on the floor is expensive.


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Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Lucubrate #3009656 Yesterday at 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucubrate
Originally Posted by Cl@ssical
Side question, is it necessary to see the exact new piano you are interested in buying before you purchase or is trying one or two of the particular models enough, I realise there are variations between pianos even in the same model but just wondering how significant these are especially with a brand like Yamaha. Thanks

Ideally - You want the exact piano You played at the dealer

Some brands vary more/less than others, but each piano is a unique instrument

If You find One on the showroom floor that does It for You - Take that One home. No guarantee a different instrument of the same make/model will be the same

Great Luck!


~Lucubrate

This. The pianos on the showroom floor tend to be prepped with more experienced technician to be at their best, so to speak. The same model that comes directly from the warehouse may or may not receive the same level of treatment. In addition to that, each piano may have a slight difference in tone and touch even within the same model and year.

Last edited by K8KT; Yesterday at 08:29 PM.
Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009658 Yesterday at 08:36 PM
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Yes important to take the serial no down.Also stress the fact to the dealer that you want that piano (serial no) in the store.Often a dealer may want to send you a new piano in the warehouse.If that is the case, say you need the piano (from the warehouse) to be prepared and tuned in the store
,so that you may come in and try the piano first.
Some people do order a piano "blind".The fact that you can return the piano without having to pay moving expenses is a plus.However you will probably then have to buy a piano from that dealer and
of course then your alternative piano (you like) in the store may just have been sold.(unlikely but possible)
"A bird in the hand is worth........"

Last edited by Lady Bird; Yesterday at 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009768 10 hours ago
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Some dealers, at least my Yamaha dealer, puts the serial number on the purchase paperwork when the piano is paid for and delivery is scheduled. The delivery team also has the serial number on the delivery paperwork. I’ve never heard of pianos purchased from a reputable dealer swapped for a different piano from the warehouse. I guess it happens.


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Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
j&j #3009776 10 hours ago
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Originally Posted by j&j
Some dealers, at least my Yamaha dealer, puts the serial number on the purchase paperwork when the piano is paid for and delivery is scheduled. The delivery team also has the serial number on the delivery paperwork. I’ve never heard of pianos purchased from a reputable dealer swapped for a different piano from the warehouse. I guess it happens.

What if the buyer never verbalized ‘I want this exact piano’? I could understand, then, how the dealer might sell the showroom model and prep another from the warehouse for delivery. Regardless of the intent of the dealer, it is always good to express exactly what you want and to document you received exactly what you ordered by documenting the serial number on both ends. The serial number should be included on all documents.

IMHO this is not a reflection of mistrusting dealers but care in the details for any legal transaction.

Last edited by dogperson; 10 hours ago.
Re: Schimmel W118 vs Yamaha U1
Cl@ssical #3009811 8 hours ago
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I tried probably every single piano model available in my area in my price range (and slightly above), over several months, and ended up with Yamaha U1, and have no regrets.

I purchased it from a Yamaha store, and they said they do not normally sell floor models, but they open and prep pianos at the warehouse, and as far as I remember, they sent a technician to have it tuned after a week or so at my home, free of extra charge.

So I purchased it without trying a particular piano, and it worked out for me.
But the previous acoustic purchased ages ago I tried.


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