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Well! Waddya think, guys? The B. in the 515/645 has its pleasant side but . . . For me, I hear the Roland metallic entrance point, a definitive place depending on the hardness of your touch. It's too soft for too long up until that time. Adjustment of the brightness helps only to a degree. No acoustic displays that characteristic; it's gradual. I never got that or anything like that on my DGX; it probably had one sample modelled progressively and it was ok. Bosendorfer derived Other Pianos (I might be wrong, but they appear to be variations) such as Warm Piano and possibly Jazz piano, seem a lot better.
Anyway, I jus' wondered. Maybe the Collective Crania here could advise on such. . .
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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The Bösendorferoparch on my P515 sounds so bad I've been completely avoiding it. A little sad since reviews made it such a good selling point. In the end nothing really compares to the cfx grand.
P-515 CLP-785
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I've taught college level class piano in a lab setting at one institution with a classroom full of CLP535s and another classroom full of CLP635s. About 20% of the students tend to choose the Bösendorfer patch, while the rest pick the CFX. Now, there may be comparative shortcomings when we talk about sampling methods and recording techniques, but I'm sort of wondering how many of the complaints are the inherent sound/behavior of a Bösendorfer Imperial.
I've gotten to perform on a few of these over the years, and they're very distinct. However, they're sort of polarizing - you either love it or you hate it. The Imperial I played most often (at my last job, where it was one of 3 pianos in the large concert hall) was an instrument I would only select for certain repertoire or particular chamber music settings.
Having played a few real ones in person, I never quite shared the degree of distaste this forum seems to have for the corresponding sample that Yamaha uses on their digital pianos.
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Would it be fair to say that a Yamaha or Steinway 9' piano has more power to fill a large hall or cut through an orchestra, but a Bosendorfer Imperial has a softer, more delicate tone?
On a CP88, I found the CFX to be unusable for my particular needs, and preferred the Imperial patch on that instrument when I auditioned one. I think the CFX may be different on the stage pianos.
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I've taught college level class piano in a lab setting at one institution with a classroom full of CLP535s and another classroom full of CLP635s. About 20% of the students tend to choose the Bösendorfer patch, while the rest pick the CFX. Now, there may be comparative shortcomings when we talk about sampling methods and recording techniques, but I'm sort of wondering how many of the complaints are the inherent sound/behavior of a Bösendorfer Imperial.
I've gotten to perform on a few of these over the years, and they're very distinct. However, they're sort of polarizing - you either love it or you hate it. The Imperial I played most often (at my last job, where it was one of 3 pianos in the large concert hall) was an instrument I would only select for certain repertoire or particular chamber music settings.
Having played a few real ones in person, I never quite shared the degree of distaste this forum seems to have for the corresponding sample that Yamaha uses on their digital pianos. Very informative if I may say so. I was beginning to wonder if the sampling actually represented the natural characteristics of this instrument, or even if a more expensive Yamaha digital might be the answer! However, for my purposes the "Warm Grand" and "Jazz" suffice nicely. They both offer a different perspective to the good ole CFX.
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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Traditional Bösendorfers sound like they're about to explode when pushed to their limit, but the change isn't really sudden.
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I've never played on a Bosie, nor on a digital with a Bosie sample. But the Bosie VSTs I've used do indeed show the softer tone that you describe ... ... a Bosendorfer Imperial has a softer, more delicate tone?
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I have to admit I prefer the Bosendorfer to the CFX on my P515.
Perhaps the volume I tend to play it at (i.e. quite low due to being in a small terrace house) or the acoustics of the room have an impact? dunno
Last edited by Skonk; 07/27/20 07:19 AM.
Yamaha P515
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Most Imperials I've played have two common characteristics: the clarity of the lower half of the piano is stunning, and the tone is always refined at all dynamic levels...which is something I sometimes find frustrating, depending on the repertoire and situation. I have almost always preferred the totality of the model 280 (both the old version and the new) when I've had the opportunity to try them.
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Yes to both.
And I find it refreshing that I (an amateur) can find concord with you, the professional.
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The Bösendorferoparch on my P515 sounds so bad I've been completely avoiding it. A little sad since reviews made it such a good selling point. In the end nothing really compares to the cfx grand. If you disable the binaural effect it will sound better... at least for me!
Last edited by orcoaffamato; 07/27/20 01:30 PM.
Schimmel 130T / Viscount Cantorum Trio / Viscount Legend '70 Artist W / Dexibell VIVO P3 / Behringer 2600 / Polyend Tracker / ASM Hydrasynth Explorer
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The Bösendorferoparch on my P515 sounds so bad I've been completely avoiding it. A little sad since reviews made it such a good selling point. In the end nothing really compares to the cfx grand. If you disable the binaural effect it will sound better... at least for me! Even the CFX sounded better when the binaural is disabled
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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The Bösendorferoparch on my P515 sounds so bad I've been completely avoiding it. A little sad since reviews made it such a good selling point. In the end nothing really compares to the cfx grand. If you disable the binaural effect it will sound better... at least for me! Even the CFX sounded better when the binaural is disabled For me too! Talking about patches, I use both depending on situation. I also find Ballad piano very universal and balanced. Not too bright, not too mellow.
Yamaha P-515, Korg SV-2 73, Kurzweil PC4-7
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Most Imperials I've played have two common characteristics: the clarity of the lower half of the piano is stunning, and the tone is always refined at all dynamic levels...which is something I sometimes find frustrating, depending on the repertoire and situation. I have almost always preferred the totality of the model 280 (both the old version and the new) when I've had the opportunity to try them. This is exactly the difference between the European aesthetic and the American one! You've managed to articulate something I've been puzzled about since moving to Alabama. So, you guys actually want that overdriven sound? I prefer the refinement, because I'm used to it. Even the Hamburgs which will distort a little do not distort to anything like the degree a NY Steinway will. Anyway back to the patch - the Bösendorfer actually kind of does sound and respond like a real Bösendorfer, although since a large part of the Bösendorfer's character comes from the way you hear the case resonance, it's impossible to experience that through headphones or the speakers of a digital piano. I quite like the patch, and I use it a lot, but the CFX is definitely 'easier' to play.
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Anyway back to the patch - the Bösendorfer actually kind of does sound and respond like a real Bösendorfer, although since a large part of the Bösendorfer's character comes from the way you hear the case resonance, it's impossible to experience that through headphones or the speakers of a digital piano. I quite like the patch, and I use it a lot, but the CFX is definitely 'easier' to play. Far be it for me to criticize it! But there's been some wonderful info here, which has been of benefit to me and others too, it seems. One of my better postings (smirk) And I've been playing the Bosie a lot lately. Thanks, guys!
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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This is exactly the difference between the European aesthetic and the American one! You've managed to articulate something I've been puzzled about since moving to Alabama. So, you guys actually want that overdriven sound? I prefer the refinement, because I'm used to it. Even the Hamburgs which will distort a little do not distort to anything like the degree a NY Steinway will. It’s a sound I obviously don’t use for everything, however I want it available in my “toolbox” for the right moments. The trouble with a lot of American pianos (particularly with some hammer wear and deferred maintenance), the sound gets to that “brassy” or overdriven place too soon. Now that I’ve been around so many high end European and Japanese pianos, the sort of forward and dirtier tone of, for example, a 1980s Baldwin just isn’t something I’m as interested in. By the same token, an Imperial whose tone stays endlessly polite (even if I shot the keyboard with a pistol) is also not what I’m after. I’m happy to hear you feel the same way about the relative success of the Bösendorfer sample. I was fairly perplexed here when so many people panned it, but it could just be a case of not being used to what the real thing sounds like, with its unashamedly old-world tone quality.
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This is exactly the difference between the European aesthetic and the American one! You've managed to articulate something I've been puzzled about since moving to Alabama. So, you guys actually want that overdriven sound? I prefer the refinement, because I'm used to it. Even the Hamburgs which will distort a little do not distort to anything like the degree a NY Steinway will. It’s a sound I obviously don’t use for everything, however I want it available in my “toolbox” for the right moments. The trouble with a lot of American pianos (particularly with some hammer wear and deferred maintenance), the sound gets to that “brassy” or overdriven place too soon. Now that I’ve been around so many high end European and Japanese pianos, the sort of forward and dirtier tone of, for example, a 1980s Baldwin just isn’t something I’m as interested in. By the same token, an Imperial whose tone stays endlessly polite (even if I shot the keyboard with a pistol) is also not what I’m after. I’m happy to hear you feel the same way about the relative success of the Bösendorfer sample. I was fairly perplexed here when so many people panned it, but it could just be a case of not being used to what the real thing sounds like, with its unashamedly old-world tone quality. This is exactly what I feel between VSL Steinway D and Bosendorfer Imperial VSTs!
Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
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I loved the imperial, espescially for classical and romantic music..
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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