2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
35 members (DavidWB, Chouca, CharlesXX, Beowulf, AndrewJCW, Belma, DDobs, 7 invisible), 504 guests, and 500 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
CLP240 owner's club
#3004017 07/18/20 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Ha ha. Fooled you. This is not a club!
But there are so many new "clubs" here I thought I'd use the title as click bait. <apologies>

My real story is a small ordeal ...

I mentioned before that the G3 on my Clav honks sometimes. It'll play normally half the time, and then jump to max 127 for no good reason. Of course there IS a reason. Probably debris in the contact sensor area.

Also, some of the notes in the upper regions of octave 4 and lower end of octave 5 play abnormally loud. But they do so consistently. I compensated with some note-specific velocity code in Kontakt.

That doesn't help with the Garritan CFX because it does not run in Kontakt. I haven't been able to use the CFX for many many months. And all the while many of you have been talking about that CFX, whilst I've been sitting in Garritan jail. frown

But at least I could use Kontakt-based instruments ... until that consarn G3 got worse and worse and worse.

So finally last weekend I opened it up. Move the monitors, and the computer monitor, and the lamp. Lots of screws. Lots of panels.
I've done it several times before, so I can do it without thinking.
But these days my back and knee complain mightily. So after opening up I let it go for the week.

It's now another weekend, raining to beat the band, so this was a good day for continuing the work. I pulled the keyboard out, inserted a dowel to lock the keys, flipped it over, and removed the mid-end and high-end contact boards.

The contact sides of all the strips (each one a 12-note octave) were as clean as could be. But the back sides were dusty as all get out. Fuzzy, dark dust on the highest notes. White particulate debris on the mids. Weird stuff.

I used an artist's brush to dust off, and a paper towel with alcohol to clean the boards and the black contacts (even though they looked clean). Putting it all back is a little tricky, but it went fine.

When I put the keyboard back in all notes worked ... except for the top 11 notes. Those all share a single contact strip. Checking the schematic revealed that those notes are covered by two bussed "scan columns", so it was unlikely that two of those would somehow fail at the same time. It must be something physical in the contact strip re-installation.

I unscrewed the high-end circuit board, tweaked the position of the rubber strip, and put it back together. I reseated the keyboard in the cabinet, and all was well.

With the keyboard in the piano I can remove any white keys that feel need for lube. Probably tomorrow. The skies are clearing and a nice Italian restaurant beckons. (Mask: check. Gloves: check. Appetite: check.)

(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004020 07/18/20 03:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,671
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,671
Has your mask got a slot in it so's you can feed?


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004068 07/18/20 05:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
In the other thread "Is a felt cover really necessary?" ... Kougeru confirmed that the piano lid does NOT stop all dust. That's what I found when I opened up the piano. Lots of ordinary dust, and lots of strange dust (white particles). That despite the lid being closed over 90% of the time.

Such debris has twice before caused the honking note problem. At least that's what the tech said.

So I guess that was the case again today with the honking G3 ... though I saw no debris in the contact area of G3 ... nor anywhere else under the rubber contacts.

I did find a couple of very short hairs. Not sure where they came from. But those were on the inactive side of the rubber contacts.

Anyway ... dinner is done. I'm home again. It's time to give the piano another try and to enjoy the honk-free sound.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004114 07/18/20 07:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
So I spent some time at the piano tonight. It's really wonderful. It was so bad before this that I thought the piano was a goner.

So many notes were too loud, and that G3 was completely out of control. I hated it so much that I've not spent much time at the piano for months.

But now! It good again. I have control again. It's like a resurrection.

By comparison it's totally excellent. Not so excellent as to dissuade me from buying an AG or NV next year. But plenty good enough to see me through until then.

I wonder how many others have had similar experiences? This is a GH3 action. But there are generations of other Yamaha pianos with similar actions (GH, GH3X).

Anyone?

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004156 07/18/20 11:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
I recently opened my CVP-107 to lube the keys and replace the upper and lower key felts (SO much quieter now). I believe it was the first time it was opened since it was manufactured 20 years ago. I’ve never had any problems like you have described.

I did take a vacuum brush to clean the general interior, and while it did have a small amount of dust, I wouldn’t have called it excessive. So this makes me wonder why yours is different.

Is there possibly some material inside your piano that is disintegrating due to age, such as old tape or something else? Is it possible the environment around your piano might be contributing, such as a ceiling air duct blowing nearby? Is it possible your carpeting might be old enough to be disintegrating? (I’ve seen old carpets have the ability to really clog up HVAC air filters). This might be a place to start: how long can you go without having to change your HVAC filter(s)? If significant dust builds up on the filters in less than 90 days, you might have a house air quality issue that might need to be addressed. Especially if you’re about to buy a nicer piano.

Then again, maybe your piano is just a lemon? Best of luck in figuring it out!

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004211 07/19/20 04:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
The stray hair doesn't register any surprise. Nor the ordinary fuzzy dust ... the kind you wipe off the furniture. That stuff is as common as dust, eh?

But I cannot explain the white particulates. They were like tiny chips. Of what composition? I don't know. Each particle smaller than the head of a pin.

It's not clear whether any of that was the cause of the problem. I just know that my tech years ago blames this sort of thing on "debris". I saw none under the contact rubber strips nor on the underlying circuit boards. All of the dirt was outside of the vulnerable areas.

The air ducts are on the other side of the room, perhaps 15 feet away.
The carpet is old ... which might explain some of the dust.
You raise a good point about the A/C filter. I've not cleaned it quite a while ... probably not since before being sentenced to corona jail. I guess I'll look into that today.

But at least I have a nicely functioning piano again. It's a pleasure to be able to use it properly.
And if it lasts another year I'll no longer pay it any mind ... because I'll be enjoying a nice new N1X or NV10.
In my new home. With no job, no boss, and lots of time.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004300 07/19/20 10:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
Those white crystals sure are a mystery. Have you ever had guest kids play your piano after eating salty or sugary snacks?

Is it time to stop servicing your cocaine habit off your keyboard? wink

That’s all I’ve got. I’m glad you managed to fix it!

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004307 07/19/20 10:25 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 221
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 221
I think 3Mac said it - he's been cutting the heads off of pins using the keyboard has a handy workspace! smile

And there's nothing quite like the feeling a keyboard which has plagued you forever, made you play less and less because how how unenjoyable and quarrelsome it is - and then fixing it and having it be magnificent! I had that experience with my 20yo Yamaha. Then I was kicking myself because $20, 10 minutes of YT videos, and 30 minutes of time fixed it outright. But MAN - it WORKED again!

But it led me to get a new DP, to Kawai, to the CA79, and to PW... I'm sure there is a cheesy bumper-sticker slogan that would work here.

Oh - click-bait totally worked.


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: CLP240 owner's club
peterws #3004316 07/19/20 10:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,736
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,736
Originally Posted by peterws
Has your mask got a slot in it so's you can feed?
C'mon Mac, I want to know too!

Re: CLP240 owner's club
spanishbuddha #3004329 07/19/20 11:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Since you insist ...
No slot in the mask. The mask and gloves stay on until the food arrives.

My wife serves as medical supply officer around here. There's a full stock of gloves, home-made masks and filters, store-bought "standard" masks, and now cotton gloves for use under the latex gloves ... because your hands sweat a lot if you wear the latter for any length of time.

As long as I'm on the topic ... that was a scrumptious dinner. I had the chicken cacciatora. I left not a crumb on the plate.

We've not been to that restaurant for two months ... and that was during the days of take-out only (corona parole?) ... so it was especially pleasing to have a proper sit-down dinner.

The owner knows us. He's from Italy and prides himself on his authentic dishes. And now this is making me hungry ...
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by peterws
Has your mask got a slot in it so's you can feed?
C'mon Mac, I want to know too!

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004334 07/19/20 11:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
Just one more thought...maybe the debris, while not ideal, was not the real cause of the problem. Perhaps an electrical connector was corroded due to humidity (or a manufacturing defect—just a poorly aging connector), and the mechanical action of unseating and reseating the connector restored a good electrical connection. If you have to revisit this issue inside of the next year, maybe try squirting a can of electronics cleaner into each connector you disconnect.

(But still be sure to relocate that cocaine habit!)

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004342 07/19/20 11:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Good point. But these symptoms point in a different direction ...

The key contacts on a piano (and on most any other multi-switch device) are scanned in rows and columns. If there were a bad connection on a line it would affect all the keys on that scan row or scan column. So a single-note problem must have some other cause. And debris is the common culprit, so I'm told time and again.

That I did not see the offending debris is not too surprising. It could have been dislodged during the disassembly. I did not see it the first time this happened nearly ten years ago (nor did the tech who did the work). You just disassemble it, clean it, and reassemble it.

There is another potential cause, though. Last time one rubber strip had a contact that was broken. The "collapsing dome" structure failed when a tear developed in the rubber. That produced some sort of inconsistency in the way the contact was striking the circuit board.

I think I dropped a picture of that here ... but where? That was five years ago.

The fix was to replace the rubber strip. I replaced four of them for good measure ... on the assumption that when one goes south others are likely to follow.

Wifey is sleeping in late today. So I'll get my lunch (not chicken cacciatora) frown ... and then clean the A/C filter (as ShootMe suggests), and then lube a few keys.

I'm glad I'm working at home and not in an office (yet) ... because if I were, discussion would veer toward "what did you do this weekend?"
"I fixed my piano" would be the least interesting of the answers.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004372 07/19/20 01:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
I think “fixing your piano” is cool—productive, satisfying, even kind of fun. Thanks for the info on the sensors.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004762 07/20/20 12:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
G
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
I am always super impressed when people are able to fix their pianos. My last digital piano had a few notes that were quieter than the others. I very happily opened the machine and saw some screws that looked like they might work as a form of regulation, but I was too scared to actually make changes for fear of making things worse. Instead, I sold it and bought a new one. Not the most frugal choice, but it was at least as fun.

Though, I have to say, fixing something like that (especially something complicated) can be extremely satisfying. I'm jealous. Good work MacMac!

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004769 07/20/20 01:03 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 28
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 28
Do you use the original lube of Yamaha or can you recommend an alternative? The original one seems to be quite expensive.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
gvfarns #3004812 07/20/20 02:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
At your age I could only afford the cheapest of pianos. If it broke I'd have to fix it, or forego the piano entirely.
Originally Posted by gvfarns
I am always super impressed when people are able to fix their pianos. My last digital piano had a few notes that were quieter than the others. I very happily opened the machine and saw some screws that looked like they might work as a form of regulation, but I was too scared to actually make changes for fear of making things worse. Instead, I sold it and bought a new one. Not the most frugal choice, but it was at least as fun.
Now I can afford to replace the piano if it's not worth fixing. But so far the repairs haven't been too expensive.
As I age I'm less and less eager to do the work myself. Bad knee, bad back, bad neck, vision problems ... I hope this is the last time I have to do repairs.

If I were retired and moved into my new location I'd have skipped the repair of this piano and moved into a new piano.
But it's fixed, and the new piano will come in 2021.
Will that be an N1X? Or an NV10? Or will the players reveal a newer, better model next year? Place your bets.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004814 07/20/20 02:51 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 221
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Will that be an N1X? Or an NV10? Or will the players reveal a newer, better model next year? Place your bets.

+1 for newer, better model next year!

... I won't be in the market for quite a while, but I always like to see new/better things!


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004821 07/20/20 02:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
In the US ... when I order parts from California I ask for a vial of lube. They supply it for free with my order.
It's a small vial, but it's enough to lube all the white keys twice.
Originally Posted by SamG
Do you use the original lube of Yamaha or can you recommend an alternative? The original one seems to be quite expensive.
Techs that use the lube regularly pay $150 or so for a one-pound jar. Yikes!

If that freebie lube were not available I'd probably try the white lithium grease that I use on computer keyboards.
I've used Lucas Oil brand lithium grease for that purpose. Around $5 for a half-pound tube. Cheap!

But I'm not yet in a position to recommend it for the piano. That lithium grease I've used is a bit thinner than the Yamaha-supplied piano key grease.
Will that be acceptable? I don't know.

And if I buy a grand-action piano next year I'll never know ... because a wooden action doesn't get greased at all.

Re: CLP240 owner's club
SamG #3004878 07/20/20 04:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by SamG
Do you use the original lube of Yamaha or can you recommend an alternative? The original one seems to be quite expensive.
If you can get your hands on the Yamaha grease, I would pay for it. Just do a search on this forum for Yamaha alternative grease, and you’ll find numerous stories of guys who have ruined their keyboards trying alternative lithium greases. Right now Yamaha has in stock one of the two greases they specify for greasing your keyboard; the other one has been backordered for the last 6 months!

One alternative that does work well for plastic-to-plastic contact, that has been used successfully on Yamaha keyboards by several people on this forum including myself, is “Molykote PG-21 Plastislip Grease.” I could only find it on eBay, and it took 3 months to arrive, but it did arrive and it does work well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Molykote-PG-21-Dow-Corning-Plastislip-Grease-85g-3oz/152882398334?epid=1795446194&hash=item239880447e:g:jWMAAOSwXf1aa7E1

Re: CLP240 owner's club
MacMacMac #3004895 07/20/20 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,918
I use the Yamaha AAX90710, which is available from Yamaha and from others. Check online.

I haven't seen this before:
Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
Just do a search on this forum for Yamaha alternative grease, and you’ll find numerous stories of guys who have ruined their keyboards trying alternative lithium greases.
Can you provide a link?

The only keyboard-destroying lube stories date to the early 2000s when people (and manufacturers!) were lubricating the rear pivot point of the keys.
#1 - That location never needs grease.
#2 - They were using a grease that was destructive for the plastic used in the keys. I don't know what kind of grease that was.

But those stories petered out in the late 2000s. So I'm interested to know whether the stories you've seen are more recent.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha or Rolan Or William rhapsody
by Belma - 01/15/21 11:22 PM
Kawai GX2 vs Shimmel 180
by tony3304 - 01/15/21 10:51 PM
N3X Lid Pin Sticking Out?
by tierce_de_picardie - 01/15/21 07:45 PM
Polyester finish Yammy
by bill miller - 01/15/21 07:29 PM
Stack of Thirds Temperament
by Seeker - 01/15/21 07:07 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,279
Posts3,047,119
Members100,069
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4