2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
39 members (crazyRyoga, Beowulf, Boboulus, bohemiatotal, clothearednincompo, Almar, brennbaer, Adem, beeboss, 9 invisible), 421 guests, and 566 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
Emigre #3003525 07/17/20 12:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by Emigre
Originally Posted by chopinetto
Originally Posted by Emigre
Originally Posted by chopinetto
The only sexism here is the sexism being perpetuated by Wang herself: selling tickets with her body. The modern feminist believes that "sexual liberation" is freeing for the woman, when the reality is it only devalues them in the eyes of all self-respecting men. Show me where men are performing classical music in this manner; they would be the recipient of endless ridicule. If women really value social equality, they need to start respecting the idea of modesty again. That is real feminism.

So: Real feminism is men telling women what to wear. OK, thanks for clearing that up.


Btw, there was a video posted in another thread here that showed a dude playing a concert in plain white t-shirt with guns on display. Just sayin....

Edit: here it is, respectful enough for you?

[Linked Image]

That is ridiculous attire for a formal concert, but clearly not comparable to Yuja's skimpy displays.

Really? I think he's displaying his body for the exact same reason Yujia is.

This is what you asked:

Originally Posted by chopinetto
Show me where men are performing classical music in this manner; they would be the recipient of endless ridicule.

Asked, and answered.
Firstly, he is not dressed the way she is dressed, so it was not "asked and answered." Secondly, the reason why I posed the question in the first place was to illustrate how a women can get away with borderline nudity in a formal setting precisely because she is a women. As I said earlier, were a man to dress in an equally revealing outfit for a formal concert, he would be ridiculed without hesitation. Why do we not do this with women? Because men are highly visual sexual creatures and sexual appeal is part of a woman's value, whether you like it or not, and it sells. Nobody wants to see a naked man play the piano, but half of the audience will be more than glad to see a naked woman play the piano. I am not a sexist for valuing modesty. Yes, Yuja should be allowed to dress however she wants within the law; I am an American who strongly believes in individual liberty after all, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with her choices.

Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
chopinetto #3003528 07/17/20 12:52 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 46
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by chopinetto
Firstly, he is not dressed the way she is dressed, so it was not "asked and answered." Secondly, the reason why I posed the question in the first place was to illustrate how a women can get away with borderline nudity in a formal setting precisely because she is a women. As I said earlier, were a man to dress in an equally revealing outfit for a formal concert, he would be ridiculed without hesitatio.

What, the equivalence in your mind to a lady dressing in a short skirt is a dude dressing in a short skirt? LOL.

Why do you think the Terminator in the pic above is showing off the guns? To impress himself?

Asked and answered, indeed.

Originally Posted by chopinetto
Because men are highly visual sexual creatures and sexual appeal is part of a woman's value, whether you like it or not, and it sells. Nobody wants to see a naked man play the piano, but half of the audience will be more than glad to see a naked woman play the piano.

Suuuuure.... Sir, I bow to your superior understanding of the female mind. Get back to me on that once you meet an actual woman.

Pro tip: No-one wants to see a naked "dude" playing the piano, but a lot of women would get a kick out of watching the Terminator above playing half stripped.

Originally Posted by chopinetto
I am not a sexist for valuing modesty.

I didn't call you one. But, what you are writing here arguably is, because you're using your own male background and prejudice to judge a woman's behaviour.

Originally Posted by chopinetto
Yes, Yuja should be allowed to dress however she wants within the law; I am an American who strongly believes in individual liberty after all, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with her choices.

Suuuure... only they that they should "be ridiculed without hesitation", your words. Freedom of speech, right?

Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
Emigre #3003530 07/17/20 01:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by Emigre
Suuuuure.... Sir, I bow to your superior understanding of the female mind. Get back to me on that once you meet an actual woman.

...

I didn't call you [a sexist]. But, what you are writing here arguably is, because you're using your own male background and prejudice to judge a woman's behaviour.

I'm a woman.

Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
chopinetto #3003533 07/17/20 01:24 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 46
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by chopinetto
Originally Posted by Emigre
Suuuuure.... Sir, I bow to your superior understanding of the female mind. Get back to me on that once you meet an actual woman.

...

I didn't call you [a sexist]. But, what you are writing here arguably is, because you're using your own male background and prejudice to judge a woman's behaviour.

I'm a woman.

So? I don't know you from a box of rocks, no offense. I will make sure to address you accordingly going forward, but this is not a rebuttal of any of my points.

Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
Emigre #3003538 07/17/20 01:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by Emigre
I don't know you from a box of rocks, no offense.
That's rather offensive actually.

Originally Posted by Emigre
this is not a rebuttal of any of my points
Fine.

Originally Posted by Emigre
What, the equivalence in your mind to a lady dressing in a short skirt is a dude dressing in a short skirt? LOL.
This only helps to illustrate my point. Those things appear equal on paper, but they are not the same thing in practice, because women and men are different and view each other differently. Women get away with wearing skirts because that's just part of being a woman. Men want to see it. There is though, in my opinion, a point where it simply becomes indecent. Not all of the skirts Wang wears are offensive to me, and some are. The one in my original post is in my opinion, over the line.

Originally Posted by Emigre
Why do you think the Terminator in the pic above is showing off the guns? To impress himself?
No idea, but the sexual dynamic between his guns and his female audience is most certainly not equivalent to the sexual dynamic between a hot woman in a skimpy dress and her male audience. You're just wrong if you think there's no difference.

Originally Posted by Emigre
Pro tip: No-one wants to see a naked "dude" playing the piano, but a lot of women would get a kick out of watching the Terminator above playing half stripped.
If a bunch of women want to go to a designated establishment for the purposes of seeing some male entertainment, who am I to judge? We are talking about a formal occasion here which should adhere to traditions of basic decency and respect.

Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
chopinetto #3003634 07/17/20 10:40 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 46
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by chopinetto
Originally Posted by Emigre
I don't know you from a box of rocks, no offense.
That's rather offensive actually.

Originally Posted by Emigre
this is not a rebuttal of any of my points
Fine.

Originally Posted by Emigre
What, the equivalence in your mind to a lady dressing in a short skirt is a dude dressing in a short skirt? LOL.
This only helps to illustrate my point. Those things appear equal on paper, but they are not the same thing in practice, because women and men are different and view each other differently. Women get away with wearing skirts because that's just part of being a woman. Men want to see it. There is though, in my opinion, a point where it simply becomes indecent. Not all of the skirts Wang wears are offensive to me, and some are. The one in my original post is in my opinion, over the line.

Originally Posted by Emigre
Why do you think the Terminator in the pic above is showing off the guns? To impress himself?
No idea, but the sexual dynamic between his guns and his female audience is most certainly not equivalent to the sexual dynamic between a hot woman in a skimpy dress and her male audience. You're just wrong if you think there's no difference.

Originally Posted by Emigre
Pro tip: No-one wants to see a naked "dude" playing the piano, but a lot of women would get a kick out of watching the Terminator above playing half stripped.
If a bunch of women want to go to a designated establishment for the purposes of seeing some male entertainment, who am I to judge? We are talking about a formal occasion here which should adhere to traditions of basic decency and respect.

Thanks for the thoughtful and thought provoking response.

- I really did not mean offence. My point was, it's the Internet... You could be male, female, 15, 65, wearing a skimpy dress, or tan pants with sandals and white socks on. And it is for that reason that I refrain from characterisations - because I don't know you other than a few lines written in haste on the Internet.

- Point taken on the male/female approach, but I think you're painting all males with the David B "if I see an attractive female I want to f*** it" broad brush. At a base level maybe it's there -- BUT a lot of us have outgrown this base reaction for the most part and can celebrate a young attractive confident pianist for being a rockin' pianist regardless what she's wearing. And if she wants to put on a skimpy outfit and rock that piano, power to her! I say you go girl! And any Neanderthals who never outgrew 13 and cannot deal with it can stay in their moms basement. It's their freaking problem, not Yujia's.

It was also mentioned earlier that if someone wants to satisfy their base instincts they have the Internet. They don't have to wait for a pianist. And just as the ladies can choose a suitable establishment to get their rocks off with scantily clad Terminators, so can the blokes and they have far more choices.

You're entering a concert hall, better be able to deal with the unpredictable wardrobe choices of the soloist and celebrate the freaking music. If not, pound sand until you grow up and can handle a basic human interaction. It's that simple.

- There sure a a lot of things to be offended by. Children in one part of the world are dying of malnutrition while in another part of the world, good food is thrown away by the sh*t ton. I find that offensive. What someone chooses to wear is just way down on the list of priorities, not to mention, that person meant no offence to you or anyone else. They just put on an outfit they liked. Unless the outfit has in large print "Chopineto you suck", if you choose to be offended that is solely your choice.

OK Time to hit the bed, it's midnight in my part of the world smile

Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
chopinetto #3003645 07/17/20 11:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 425
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 425
What point do threads like this serve other than to show us who shares our personal ideological alignments and who doesn't?

I wish this forum could be a safe haven from politics and the ideological divides that seem to be ripping the world apart.

I don't want to point fingers at either side, I'm just sad.


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Cedar Park, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko"
Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
Dr. Rogers #3003662 07/17/20 12:05 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,585
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,585
Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
What point do threads like this serve other than to show us who shares our personal ideological alignments and who doesn't?

I wish this forum could be a safe haven from politics and the ideological divides that seem to be ripping the world apart.

I don't want to point fingers at either side, I'm just sad.

Yes, Dr. Rogers, I agree; this thread has brought out some unpleasantness that shouldn't be part of this forum. It's time to shut this down!

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Thoughts on Yuja Wang outfits?
chopinetto #3003670 07/17/20 12:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,137
B
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,137
This one has long since run its course.


Greg
Page 7 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
iPad pro (2020) MIDI Output not consistent
by Almar - 01/18/21 05:33 AM
used Kawai RX-1 or new Kawai GL-30?
by Guido, Roma - Italy - 01/18/21 05:23 AM
Roland F701 vs FP-90X (?)
by Mulberg - 01/18/21 02:17 AM
Garritan CFX, Sustain Release Samples ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 01/17/21 11:18 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,350
Posts3,048,280
Members100,102
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4