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I noticed that just a few posts in response to mine were personally attacking me, and frankly I was hoping that if you disagreed with me or any other poster such as Nephronos about our beliefs about this or that piano, based on our or anyone else's experience, that you would address the facts as you see them without resorting to personal invective.
I won't even go there, but I will say, that inquiring about a Petrof, does not make me a "beginner" at locating or expressing an interest in a piano. I have already said that I own a Steinway M, 1917 rebuilt grand piano that I adore, and yes, we all grow very attached to our pianos, and will defend them, but hopefully,not at the expense of someone else's feelings.
As to the "beginner" thing, I will state the facts. I am actually all of 59 years old and I am a SHE not a HE. I have been studying the piano and performing since age 6. Just because I have been put on the defensive, I will say that I graduated Oberlin Conservatory that housed in the late 1960's at least 500 pianos in eons of practice rooms, and I got to sample Steinways, Chickerings, Baldwins, and other grand pianos over four years' time.
I also took the Piano Tech course there and then proceeded to do grad work at NYU where I received my M.A. Just to also mention that I attended the NYC HS of Performing Arts and was exposed to even more diverse pianos there. I grew up on a Sohmer 1922 studio upright that to me was an incredible resonating instrument and then was fortunate to obtain my Steinway grand upon Oberlin graduation. Because I teach as well as perform regularly, I have tried many of my students' pianos over 35 years, and have an association currently with a tuner/tech who has detailed pianos I have taken a liking to in the nooks and crannies of my city. He has enlightened me quite a bit about the insides, and the technical dimesion of various pianos scrutinized. In the past year, I decided to help people locate pianos of a used nature, and in this journey, I have become even more circumspect about the resonance, voicing, action regulation of various types of verticals and grands, though for decades I had more of an intuitive appreciation of a piano based upon my having perfomed extensively. I have also shared some of my ups and downs with pianos --and in mentioning the Grotrian experience, I must clarify, with apology, that for me the particular model I purchased did not resonate in ALL ranges. And as mentioned, I feel I erred in choosing this piano because of an unrealistic acoustical environment, IN MY OPINION. I hope I will not be personally attacked for this opinion.
Next, as to the Petrof, I had been to the local dealer and was not impressed with their TWO Steinway uprights, but was surprised to have discovered a Petrof upright that a recording buff and fine musician friend picked out for himself over the Steinway uprights (1098s) and Yamaha U3s that we had both played on the same afteroon in the same store. So I asked if I could come over and play the Petrof UPRIGHT 48.5 inches. Well, yes, I liked the voicing and resonance, but did not give ample time to detail the action regulation. My friend is very, very pleased with his purchase, and I am glad for him. Does this make him or I a "beginner" at finding pianos. I am sure he would not appreciate such a comment being made about him.
I am still basically a Steinway grand person, who would choose to play in public on a Steinway. I have even shipped my Steinway to various performance venues because in this community there are few concert level instruments to perform on.
Finally, I just wanted to mention that I have my website up and running, and there are two MPs on it, that I, myself, have difficulty accessing because of my slow, dial-up computer connection, but others have been successful at linking to the selections. I consider myself a hardworking performing musician and teacher, and a discerning individual when it comes to judging pianos based on criteria that are familiar to me, and of which I am expanding my tecnical horizons each day. I am always open to new ideas from others, however, I am not receptive to personal insults.
I basically enjoy posting here and reading other individuals' ideas. I have also enjoyed some of the private messages I have received through this Forum. One very nice poster had been interested in an article I had published in the Piano Quarterly that related to difficulties in maintaining fine pianos in small communities. It seems like a lot of us have this ongoing challenge. I posted this message in the Piano Technicians' Forum without anyone hurling a personal insult at me. I have also published articles in two other professional music journals.
I hope this clarifies my own position in the matter of my own postings, and if I offended anyone by possessing opinions about certain pianos, of which they disagree, then it was not intended.
Website: www.fasttraxx.com/shirleykirsten
Newest CD: A Musical Journey: Scarlatti, Schubert, and Chopin. This album has 16 Scarlatti sonatas along with the Romantic period selections.

Bravo Shirley,
Gorgeous playing on a beautiful sounding instrument.
All the best,
Dan

Shirley,

I'm truly sorry if some of the replies you received were attacking you personally something you'd said. I'm not sure why it is but some people seem to feel it's ok to be abusive behind the anonymity of the internet and, after all, we're talking about pianos here, not religion or politics, so we should be able to be civil in expressing our points of view.

Your background is impressive and your playing is lovely. I hope you stick around and share your experience (and playing) with us.

p.s. It's hard to determine a gender from music32!

Shirley,

I believe it would have been very helpful for you to have posted your above introduction in your initial posts. You have to understand that you appeared quite suddenly on this board with many posts and with a few factual errors and some strong opinions without a basis to guide the reader.

I won't say that you got what you deserved nor that it is appropriate to be impolite but it is also suggested to provide a background as you did above before diving into the deep waters.

Welcome aboard and given your background and playing ability I'm sure we will all appreciate your perspective.

Dear Shirley,
I was delighted to listen to your Scarlatti sonata and Chopin waltz. Your playing is warmly musical and full of vitality. Indeed it is a pleasure to listen to you.
You have immense talent and experience to offer this forum and I hope that you can continue to give us all the benefits of your piano wisdom and professionalism.
Your comments are a timely reminder to all members about standards of politeness and respect when posting.

Kind regards,
Robert.

Shirley,

Welcome, and perhaps we can all get back on an even keel now. I'm always a champion of civil discourse, as a review of my posting history will reveal.

I think one of the reasons for the substantial reaction to your initial posts was the extent to which many people found some of their content quite opinionated and hard edged. Some of the reaction itself veered into the personal, but only some. I trust that disagreeing with some inferences you make (as in moving from your dislike of a particular piano to none-too-subtle digs at the company's quality) don't count as personal attacks. If you think they do, then you're not gonna have a lot of fun here.

Cheers,

DF

Shirley,

Welcome. I couldn't agree with you more in that there is no need for anything that smacks of a personal attack.

I re-read my response to you and I don't think I said anything offensive. However, I did politely point out that one of your statements was misleading, and in fact, could easily lead novice readers here to make the wrong decision.

If you agree with me, the responsible thing to do would be to edit the comment or respond in the thread. If you still think you are right then you should say so, and the conversation could continue toward resolution...civilly, of course. Leaving it without comment is antithetical to the purposes of the Piano Forum.

Robert I agree with what you said !
Shirley I am glad to hear that the Petrof worked out well for your friend, may he be as happy with his as I was with mine ! Shirley.......your playing is beautiful!!!!!!

Thank you for your comments, clarifications related to my posts, and particularly for the responses to my musical samples from my latest album. I truly enjoyed this newest adventure of recording a good amount of Scarlatti, and I am so devoted his music, that I cannot resist cutting another CD with about 20 additional sonatas.
It makes the musical journey well worth it to to know the work of a musician and the eternal study and refinement involved is appreciated by so many who understand the complexity of performing and recording. Thank you again for all of your feedback as it relates to my posts and the performances I am always trying to improve--Shirley K

A highlight of my day is reading posts from the piano forum. Regardless of the critical reactions that occur from time to time to someone's post, it seems that, in the end, understanding is reached and good feelings prevail. At least, this thread proves such. I wish that all disagreements that I encounter in life could end so. Loved your recordings, Shirley, and to all of you regular posters, you rock!

I'll second that. I also agree that oftentimes in the relative anonymity of an online forum, we often react in ways that we would never consider doing when face to face. Perhaps we should all think before we hit add reply, "If this person was standing in front of me right now, would I say the same thing I just typed?" I know I've made a post or two that I regretted later. I'm sure we all have.

--Dennis

Hi, music32. I listened to your playing and its quite nice. But I have to confess, I seem to have missed the threads which spawned this one. But I just caught up by reading all your prior posts and responses out of curiosity.

It seems that almost all of your comments regarding music and composers, both your own and that of others, are well received and spawn much intelligent discussion. Perhaps a good strategy to make more friends and influence more people would be to focus your discourse accordingly.

I assume the thread that insulted you is this one:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/16652.html#000000

In reading it, most of the interchange strikes me as fair and responsive. I thought your bad experience with a Grotrian was rebutted in a friendly manner by those with contrary experiences. My own experience having encountered a grand total of one Grotrian is also to the contrary. And I have to agree with responses questioning your advocating piano shopping only in spaces resembling your own home. Which would pretty much make it next to impossible to buy a new piano. But I appreciate the difficulty of judging the sound of a piano in a room full of other pianos that "sing along"... maybe the answer is to try and strike a rent-to-buy deal with easy opt-out.

But your comment about hearing over and over that Hamburg Steinways don't fare well in the climate of the USA... Having never heard anyone say that before myself, and having been to Germany and not finding the climate so different there compared to that of much of the USA... speculation that you might not know what you are talking about isn't necessarily an unfair reaction to that. My own reaction is, "That's incredible." Maybe they could have debated whether Fresno gets perhaps warmer or more humid than a summer concert at Herrenchiemsee.

Although I don't personally agree with many of your piano opinions myself, I don't agree with VGrantano's assessment of you either. I hope you can both agree to disagree without claiming to be insulted because of it.

And good luck with that new CD you're planning. Hope you preview some of it here too.

Howard

.

The insults related to condescension as being a mere "beginner," and another that more than inferred that I was seeking inordinate attention for myself. Frankly, repeating the insults only gives the insulter more motivation to keep insulting. I did not particularly find your quoted section to be offensive, so I think I have clarified what in my opinion was sadly communicated.
To Howard, my CD has musical samples at my web location
www.fasttraxx.com/shirleykirsten
I do plan to record even more Scarlatti for my next recording project. I am happy to say that our local public radio station will be broadcasting parts of Album 3, A Musical Journey...

There was also an unfortunate comment made that referred to my asking questions about the Petrof piano, and deprecated my interest in the Petrof..If one owns a Steinway as I do, and adores it, or any other piano, then he or she has the every right to try other pianos and inquire about their actions etc without ridicule or innuendo.

piano playing experience doth not an experienced piano shopper make. . .

great Scarlatti!

welcome Shirley.

You can always count on apple* to be positive!

Dear music32,

I think some people reacted to your post the way they did because of your low post count and firm opinions. You see, there have been some problems in the past with allegedly new posters who "came out swinging" with rather strong opinions about certain brands. Some of them turned out to be sockpuppets with a hidden agenda to promote certain makes of pianos, and to hurt the competition. For a real-time example, take a look at the Perzina thread-- there's some obviously shifty stuff going on there.

Anyhow, I certainly don't doubt you are who you say you are, now that you've explained your background. Thank you, by the way, for lovely playing of the Chopin and Scarlatti.

--c5

I'm getting a Deja Vu feeling.....

music32's posts here can also be found on another piano teaching forum, where she wielded her sword after feeling insulted about something rather silly.

A lengthy list of credentials doesn't give one the right to be condescending and rude.

A chill pill might be in order.