2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
72 members (20/20 Vision, clothearednincompo, Colin Miles, bcalvanese, booms, 36251, Bruce Sato, Carey, AlkansBookcase, 8 invisible), 1,944 guests, and 251 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#3003408 07/16/20 04:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 680
M
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 680
Hey folks,

I spend so much time looking and screens, text, and scores that it seems as if my eyes have lost their intelligence, as if my eyes are tired... and I am not able to read efficiently. I have always been a 'decent' sight reader... and better in my youth. Perhaps its just that im out of practice, in spite of the fact that I read through hymns and Bach Chorales at least 4 times a week. I just recently have had to buy a pair of reading glasses, but all the same I had a question:

Any advice about how to drastically increasing your sight reading ability, especially under pressure, or with other eyes on your score?

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,275
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,275
Aren't you just out of practice with sight-reading stuff other than hymns and chorales?

If you start sight-reading piano music of the style/era - be it Baroque/polyphonic, Classical, Romantic, atonal/contemporary - that you want to be good at, you'll likely become pretty good at it.

I know church organists who're pretty good at sight-reading anything in 4-part harmony, but hopeless at polyphonic Bach.


If music be the food of love, play on!
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,948
T
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,948
In general, a teacher would recommend students read consistently from the bottom up. First read the Key Signature to know the black keys to play. Next start with the lowest note on the bass and go up to the treble. And you'd recognize intervals quickly to know the notes to play together.

To be good at sight-reading means reading a new piece as much as possible. When you're playing with other musicians, you may even drop notes in the middle just to keep a piece going.

The last Bach piece I played was a fugue in 4 voices. Took me a month to learn 4 pages. The notes are easy to read and there are few big jumps. The problem was that more than half the overlapping notes don't start or end on the same beat. It's not easy to start playing from a specific measure that has 1 or more notes that continue from the measure before. When you hold down a long note and play other notes on top, you only have 4 fingers to work with. And there are times you need to change finger to keep a note down when you run out of fingers to play other notes on top. Many people including myself wouldn't be sight-reading a piece like that. i was working on it a few measure a day before playing the whole thing from top to bottom.


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,154
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,154
My teacher had me use Bartok's Mikrokosmos as sight-reading exercises (at least the first 3/4 books worth). They're great for that, because Bartok is usually surprising you in some regard - non-standard key signatures, odd meters, generally doing things you wouldn't expect, etc... It keeps you on your toes and makes you really focus on reading what's on the page, and not what you _think_ should be coming next.


What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 286
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 286
I always wished someone would invent some app or game (maybe it already exists?) where you're given a piece to sight-read, and the app calculates the percentage of notes/ directions that you're reading correctly vs how many mistakes you make, notes you leave out, etc. Your scores would give you an incentive to do better every time and to notice and read ahead as many details as possible.

My sight-reading was at its best when I was friends with a wonderful violinist (who unfortunately later left the country) and we would sight-read together all the time- standard sonatas, short pieces, transcriptions, obscure composers, early music, modern music, anything we could find that looked interesting. Those were some of the happiest hours of my life. The pressure of him being an amazing reader forced me to read as best as I could in the moment, and I think it's that pressure that really stretches one's abilities, because pushing yourself becomes a habit. It's so different from reading on your own or being in an environment that's less demanding. I notice it these days- I allow myself to not push myself to the maximum because I can get away with it, because it's a voice lesson or an acting lesson and everyone else plays just what's needed to keep it going. But it's such a dangerous habit, and I'm so afraid of going down that slope. When I recently told a friend I was accompanying a lot of singers he said, your sight-reading must have skyrocketed, and I was so embarrassed and worried to suddenly realize that it's actually gotten worse. (And here's a promise to self to remedy this, starting today, and to never again allow myself to play with less than full involvement).


"Love has to be the starting point- love of music. It is one of my firmest convictions that love always produces some knowledge, while knowledge only rarely produces something similar to love."
Arthur Schnabel

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 286
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 286
Originally Posted by 8ude
My teacher had me use Bartok's Mikrokosmos as sight-reading exercises (at least the first 3/4 books worth). They're great for that, because Bartok is usually surprising you in some regard - non-standard key signatures, odd meters, generally doing things you wouldn't expect, etc... It keeps you on your toes and makes you really focus on reading what's on the page, and not what you _think_ should be coming next.

Brilliant!

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,154
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,154
Originally Posted by Ainar
I always wished someone would invent some app or game (maybe it already exists?) where you're given a piece to sight-read, and the app calculates the percentage of notes/ directions that you're reading correctly vs how many mistakes you make, notes you leave out, etc. Your scores would give you an incentive to do better every time and to notice and read ahead as many details as possible.

My sight-reading was at its best when I was friends with a wonderful violinist (who unfortunately later left the country) and we would sight-read together all the time- standard sonatas, short pieces, transcriptions, obscure composers, early music, modern music, anything we could find that looked interesting. Those were some of the happiest hours of my life. The pressure of him being an amazing reader forced me to read as best as I could in the moment, and I think it's that pressure that really stretches one's abilities, because pushing yourself becomes a habit. It's so different from reading on your own or being in an environment that's less demanding. I notice it these days- I allow myself to not push myself to the maximum because I can get away with it, because it's a voice lesson or an acting lesson and everyone else plays just what's needed to keep it going. But it's such a dangerous habit, and I'm so afraid of going down that slope. When I recently told a friend I was accompanying a lot of singers he said, your sight-reading must have skyrocketed, and I was so embarrassed and worried to suddenly realize that it's actually gotten worse. (And here's a promise to self to remedy this, starting today, and to never again allow myself to play with less than full involvement).

There is an app called PianoMarvel that does that. My kids use it with their teacher, and it is pretty good. Not perfect, there is only so much that any of these apps can do, but it does pretty much what you were talking about - giving you feedback about how many notes you got right, where you went wrong. You would need a digital to use it, though, as it hooks into an iPad or something in order to get the MIDI signals. I believe there are ones out there that are more based on audio listening, but I have to think that those will have some issues as well, notable in how they deal with out-of-tune pianos and background noise.


What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 680
M
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 680
Originally Posted by Ainar
I always wished someone would invent some app or game (maybe it already exists?) where you're given a piece to sight-read, and the app calculates the percentage of notes/ directions that you're reading correctly vs how many mistakes you make, notes you leave out, etc. Your scores would give you an incentive to do better every time and to notice and read ahead as many details as possible.

My sight-reading was at its best when I was friends with a wonderful violinist (who unfortunately later left the country) and we would sight-read together all the time- standard sonatas, short pieces, transcriptions, obscure composers, early music, modern music, anything we could find that looked interesting. Those were some of the happiest hours of my life. The pressure of him being an amazing reader forced me to read as best as I could in the moment, and I think it's that pressure that really stretches one's abilities, because pushing yourself becomes a habit. It's so different from reading on your own or being in an environment that's less demanding. I notice it these days- I allow myself to not push myself to the maximum because I can get away with it, because it's a voice lesson or an acting lesson and everyone else plays just what's needed to keep it going. But it's such a dangerous habit, and I'm so afraid of going down that slope. When I recently told a friend I was accompanying a lot of singers he said, your sight-reading must have skyrocketed, and I was so embarrassed and worried to suddenly realize that it's actually gotten worse. (And here's a promise to self to remedy this, starting today, and to never again allow myself to play with less than full involvement).


Thats really interesting! I find it very disorienting when im reading with other fluent musicians, because I do most of my work in a vacuum, and since I left university I do very little reading with other musicians.

Thanks for the Microcosmos idea, im going to dig in!

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 2
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 2
There is an app on the iPad called ReadAhead.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 286
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 286
Originally Posted by 8ude
There is an app called PianoMarvel that does that. My kids use it with their teacher, and it is pretty good. Not perfect, there is only so much that any of these apps can do, but it does pretty much what you were talking about - giving you feedback about how many notes you got right, where you went wrong. You would need a digital to use it, though, as it hooks into an iPad or something in order to get the MIDI signals. I believe there are ones out there that are more based on audio listening, but I have to think that those will have some issues as well, notable in how they deal with out-of-tune pianos and background noise.

Thank you- I've just looked it up and will be checking it out!


"Love has to be the starting point- love of music. It is one of my firmest convictions that love always produces some knowledge, while knowledge only rarely produces something similar to love."
Arthur Schnabel

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
S
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
Originally Posted by Ainar
Originally Posted by 8ude
There is an app called PianoMarvel that does that. My kids use it with their teacher, and it is pretty good. Not perfect, there is only so much that any of these apps can do, but it does pretty much what you were talking about - giving you feedback about how many notes you got right, where you went wrong. You would need a digital to use it, though, as it hooks into an iPad or something in order to get the MIDI signals. I believe there are ones out there that are more based on audio listening, but I have to think that those will have some issues as well, notable in how they deal with out-of-tune pianos and background noise.

Thank you- I've just looked it up and will be checking it out!


There is an ongoing thread devoted to Piano Marvel users in the ABF. These guys can answer all your questions

PW. Piano Marvel

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
Another thing my teacher used to do is to block out the bar I am playing (or two bars), so to ensure I am looking at the next (or second next) bar while playing.


Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 722
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 722
The only way to get better at sight reading is to play through more scores and get exposed to more types of music and notation. Certain patterns repeat that help you later down the road when you see something new.

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,092
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by boo1234
The only way to get better at sight reading is to play through more scores and get exposed to more types of music and notation. Certain patterns repeat that help you later down the road when you see something new.

I'm using this method and I'm using pieces below my current level. Not too far below but just below my level so I can actually play it sounding like the song. I'm also using Super Sight Reading Secrets and Cory Hall Sight Reading and Harmony and taking away some key concepts and overlap. I am enjoying all of it and improving.

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 317
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 317
You can start by affording yourself a pair of glasses with lenses that are catered specifically to the distance between your eyes at your natural seated position in front of your instrument to the music desk of your piano, as being able to clearly see both the music and your hands is paramount. Your "reading glasses" may be focused to a closer distance than you need to be able to clearly see your music and hands, which will eventually cause your eyes to strain.

Now onto the meat and potatos. Both learning how to successfully and properly play the piano along with the ability to sight read are learned experiences that take time to develope, which takes years of playing, especially moreso with adult students, with some never being able to successfully do either.

Have patience and become talented, and through that successful experience will come familiarity, and through familiarity will come comfort...and only through this comfort will the ability to concentrate on seeing what needs to be played and playing it correctly on the fly become a skill that the pianist can utilize at will, whether they were at home by themselves or playing in front of 50 people. Such abilities simply cannot be magically gleaned or hastened from a video, book, or app, so honker down and build up your experience smile


Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Recommended Songs for Beginners
by FreddyM - 04/16/24 03:20 PM
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,391
Posts3,349,282
Members111,634
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.