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Warning for second hand sellers
#3001755 07/12/20 09:36 AM
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In the UK I have used gumtree in the past to sell various bits and pieces without any problem.

But it now seems like scamming is the default state. I've got something on sale on gumtree and so far the queries have been only scammers. Usually using some PayPal type scam. It is fairly easy to be safe but you do have to be constantly vigilant and just provides that extra bit of effort.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001756 07/12/20 09:40 AM
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What is the "model" of the typical paypal scam? I use paypal alot - tens of thousands of USD per year. It would be good to know what sorts of enquiries to be vigilant about.

I did have one paypal scam worked on me where scammer linked an ebay account to my paypal account illicitly, and then used it to pay out to themselves about $2,500 USD before PayPal's AI fraud detection software triggered, locking my PayPal account and forcing me to call Customer Service to resolve, whereupon I discovered the theft. PayPal did an investigation which took 5 days and returned my money in full. (PayPal did force me to change to two-factor authentication even though my previous password was unguessable.) I assume in this case, PayPal didn't get money back from the scammer and just took the hit themselves. BTW, this happened about 10 days ago, but that might not be a recent trend, and just coincidental.


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Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001766 07/12/20 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
In the UK I have used gumtree in the past to sell various bits and pieces without any problem.

But it now seems like scamming is the default state. I've got something on sale on gumtree and so far the queries have been only scammers. Usually using some PayPal type scam. It is fairly easy to be safe but you do have to be constantly vigilant and just provides that extra bit of effort.

I got a scammer target me on both Craigslist and GumTree: part of the environment now and definitely something worth reading up on before selling on those sites.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001772 07/12/20 10:06 AM
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This is the discussion on the phone number I looked up after getting a WhatsApp message. PayPal scam discussions

A more complex PayPal gumtree scam is, a buyer for something you are selling, forwards a payment on from someone who is trying to buy something from them. You don’t notice the payment details, but see you have the money and organise delivery. But that is not what you have been paid for. The person who paid now expects delivery of what they have bought or their money back.

PayPal is on their side and you have no choice than to reimburse them or be removed from PayPal.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001774 07/12/20 10:08 AM
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I now have someone coming who has said they are paying by cash. Fingers crossed there is no issue.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001791 07/12/20 10:38 AM
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Looks like that person was a time waster. Over half an hour late now.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001795 07/12/20 10:43 AM
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Yep, cash is king. I seldom use cash, but it's a necessity when dealing with persons unknown.

I would not do business on Craigs List any other way.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001811 07/12/20 11:24 AM
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I sold a lot of used photo & video gear on Craigslist - cash only. Yes, a lot of scammers circling around. 9 out of 10 potential buyers were playing tricks IMO.
Never tried to sell anything on eBay or any other similar marketplace, and if I buy there - I buy only new from reputable sellers, luckily no issues so far.
The only used stuff I bought online was books, or sheet music. And couple libs on kvr and vi-control forums.


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Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001816 07/12/20 11:38 AM
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Man, I am an infrequent user of services like Craigslist or eBay. Actually, last Craigslist purchase was probably 8 years ago for a couch and the guy brought it to me himself and it was in great shape and I still use it today.

But scams were not as common I think. And were more obvious. What you guys describe is much more disheartening!

I don't think this is a case of "the past was so much better than today"... it seems like there's MUCH more potential fraud today than in the past. I tried to buy a Pianoteq edition from someone on eBay, but it turns out it was pirated. Blatantly! Don't eBay typically shut down things like that?

Ugh.


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Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001820 07/12/20 11:45 AM
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An hour and a half later, still no show. No reply to my text of where are you. A time waster I am guessing.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001823 07/12/20 11:49 AM
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When buyers and sellers are struggling to trust each other on a platform, I think this will stop functioning soon.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001824 07/12/20 11:50 AM
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Here in British Columbia I have sold a couple of hundred things on Craigslist and never ran into an upfront scammer. The worst I have had are a few people who after communicating back and forth for a while want me to ship the item in question--and I think all but one of those were legit folk that really, really wanted what I was selling. 100% cash, face-to-face is the key, I think.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001831 07/12/20 12:04 PM
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Not related to buying or selling, but the latest thing here is a call from someone supposedly from the government COVID contact tracing people. They say you have been in contact with someone who tested positive, and then they offer a test for €50.

I was once scammed as a buyer on e-bay. I bought a couple of microphones that never turned up. Another buyer contacted me who had also ordered some; in those days the buyer's ID wasn't hidden. Oddly, one of his turned up, so I suppose the seller started out meaning to sell one microphone but got greedy. I got a refund from my card issuer.

I've never heard of anyone over here using Craigslist. The site looks like it was made in 1994.

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001844 07/12/20 12:54 PM
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I've used Ebay plenty, inc recently with no problems, but there have been paypal scams in my inbox . . . and my delivery postcode sometimes changes.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001855 07/12/20 01:43 PM
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Online selling is a booming buiseness here in Holland..
The country is small, so picking things up is not really that hard for most

Seems tough that the many scammers allways live in those hard to reach places near the border..


I only sell for cash money, or trough safe banking om delivery or pickup.. if its not to far, i charge fuell costs and bring the products..

Over the past decade, i managed to buy most used gear online.. and often sold with a little profit..

Tough Corona has killed the used instruments market here in Holland, i sold 2 pieces of gear, and lost considerable money on them..

In general its easy for me to recognise scammers.. altough the new trend is robbery on pick up trough weapons and violence.. which is far worse then scammers

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3001861 07/12/20 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
This is the discussion on the phone number I looked up after getting a WhatsApp message. PayPal scam discussions

A more complex PayPal gumtree scam is, a buyer for something you are selling, forwards a payment on from someone who is trying to buy something from them. You don’t notice the payment details, but see you have the money and organise delivery. But that is not what you have been paid for. The person who paid now expects delivery of what they have bought or their money back.

PayPal is on their side and you have no choice than to reimburse them or be removed from PayPal.
So, when you, the seller, sell something and receive payment, before organising delivery, you should check the name and delivery address in the paypal page too, to see if it is the same of the delivery address you received from the guy who contacted you for the purchase. If the address is different you should refuse to send the product and proceed to a paypal refund (and maybe send an email to the paypal address to report this to the real user that payed).

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3003187 07/16/20 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
A more complex PayPal gumtree scam is, a buyer for something you are selling, forwards a payment on from someone who is trying to buy something from them. You don’t notice the payment details, but see you have the money and organise delivery. But that is not what you have been paid for. The person who paid now expects delivery of what they have bought or their money back.

I don't follow this. Consider three people: A, B (the fraudster), & C. A offers item X for sale. B offers to buy X from A. B also offers Y, a different item, for sale. C buys Y from B, and sends a PayPal payment to B. B "forwards" (what does that mean?) the payment to A. A doesn't look at the payment carefully, and sends X to B. C never receives Y and complains to PayPal. Is that right?

But isn't C's complaint against B, not A? After all, it was B who was going to send Y to C. If "forwarding" means simply using a payment you received from one person to buy something else from another person, isn't that entirely legitimate? If C sent cash to B, and B "forwarded" the cash to A, how would that be different?

What am I missing?

Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3003222 07/16/20 04:42 AM
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I occasionally use Gumtree but that tends to be for stuff that will be a hassle to post. Local people use it for face-to-face deals and that means cash. I've had no issues.

In the main I use eBay and I've had no problems with PayPal but then their systems (PayPal and eBay) are pretty good in my experience. If PayPal sends the message "you can now send any items" you are good to go, as long as you always send to the verified address.


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Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3003224 07/16/20 04:52 AM
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I just sold my old CVP through Faceache and once up it took about 30 mins for the deal to be struck and he came collected - the only worry was fake money but it turns out to be fine smile


No good but carry on regardless
Re: Warning for second hand sellers
KevinM #3003262 07/16/20 08:39 AM
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Sale finally happened, that was a lot more stressful than my selling of two digital pianos last year. I don't think I'll use gumtree again, filtering out the scammers now is just hard work and you can never be certain.

Sale was face to face and cash only.

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