2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
57 members (Almaviva, CyberGene, Blague, anotherscott, DaKillaGuineaPig, achoo42, Bobby Badd, Animisha, 13 invisible), 458 guests, and 470 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
#3000904 07/10/20 02:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
R
Ragha Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Hello All,

I am new to the PianoWorld forum. I appreciate all the help that is being provided to the fellow piano learners/enthusiasts in this forum.

I am a beginner, started learning 3 months back and I am more than half way through the Alfred's Basic adult piano level 1. Currently I am practicing on Yamaha PSR-E363 keyboard. I am liking piano and I want to invest in a basic digital piano.

I have short listed two model - Yamaha P-125 and Kawai ES-110.
Roland is out of picture as no dealer in my city has demo piece to try and no service available if any problem comes in future.

I tried both P-125 and ES110 yesterday. My thoughts on them as below.

Kawai ES110:
I really like the sound. It sounded very natural to me.
Keys felt very responsive and easy to play(even near the back of the keys)
My only problem is that the keys make lot of noise while bouncing back after releasing.

Yamaha P125:
Sounds OK, but not as good as ES110.
Key action seemed sluggish and not as easy as es110 to play.
This does not have any noticeable rebound noise though. This is the only advantage I am seeing over es110.

My problem here is, i liked ES110 but worried about the rebound noise. I could notice it even when playing at full volume through speaker and through headphones. I head read lot of comments that it is normal and some that it is not. I also tried KDP-110, CN-39 (both of them has this noise, CN-39 a little bit less). CA-48 does not have this noise but it is out of my budget.

My question is does one get used to that rebound noise? Any suggestions to make my decision are much appreciated.

This is the noise I am referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxLIMcmz0f0

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000923 07/10/20 03:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,880
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,880
Originally Posted by Ragha
Hello All,

I am new to the PianoWorld forum. I appreciate all the help that is being provided to the fellow piano learners/enthusiasts in this forum.

I am a beginner, started learning 3 months back and I am more than half way through the Alfred's Basic adult piano level 1. Currently I am practicing on Yamaha PSR-E363 keyboard. I am liking piano and I want to invest in a basic digital piano.

I have short listed two model - Yamaha P-125 and Kawai ES-110.
Roland is out of picture as no dealer in my city has demo piece to try and no service available if any problem comes in future.

I tried both P-125 and ES110 yesterday. My thoughts on them as below.

Kawai ES110:
I really like the sound. It sounded very natural to me.
Keys felt very responsive and easy to play(even near the back of the keys)
My only problem is that the keys make lot of noise while bouncing back after releasing.

Yamaha P125:
Sounds OK, but not as good as ES110.
Key action seemed sluggish and not as easy as es110 to play.
This does not have any noticeable rebound noise though. This is the only advantage I am seeing over es110.

My problem here is, i liked ES110 but worried about the rebound noise. I could notice it even when playing at full volume through speaker and through headphones. I head read lot of comments that it is normal and some that it is not. I also tried KDP-110, CN-39 (both of them has this noise, CN-39 a little bit less). CA-48 does not have this noise but it is out of my budget.

My question is does one get used to that rebound noise? Any suggestions to make my decision are much appreciated.

This is the noise I am referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxLIMcmz0f0

You can also go used and pick up something next level.
I had the same choice: Pay £600-700 on a beginner piano with one good sound and dodgy action, or go used and pick up an intermediate level action. I ended up getting an MP7.
I later used the same trick up upgrade to the MP7SE---waited for the used market to offer a good deal.
Can't say I've ever regretted my choice.

Last edited by Doug M.; 07/10/20 03:44 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000934 07/10/20 04:33 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
Hi Ragha,
I am also a beginner and have the ES110 and yes, one can hear the rebound noise if you focus on it, but I don't think it's a real world issue when playing or practicing. When I am practicing and from the moment the piece starts being slightly demanding for me, it's completely out of my mind (and also out of my ears). I don't know if a more advanced player would find it it disturbing but in my ears it's a non-issue. In retrospective I would buy the ES110 again.

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000939 07/10/20 04:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 273
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 273
The MP7SE also suffers a bit from 'bouncing noise' the ES110 has, although it is better, and more expensive. Yamaha's GHS (which you'll find in the P125 amongst others) and Korg's NH (B2 for example) are rather quiet for plastic keybeds, but unfortunately, the touch is not as good as Kawai's RHC (ES110) or RHIII (ES8, MP7SE...).

If you want a quiet(er) keybed, you'll have to go for wood or hybrid wood/plastic, which immediately puts you in a higher price bracket. As for plastic keybeds, Korg's RH3 is one of the best and quietest, and you'll usually find it in their more expensive range of DPs and workstations. However, the D1 is in the same price range as the ES110 and P125, and has Korg's best keybed. But it's just a quiet (or even quieter) than Yamaha's GHS (P125) and feels just as good to play as Kawai's RHC (ES110).
Doesn't come with built-in speakers, though, so you'll have to fork out a bit extra for monitor speakers or a keyboard amp, and connectivity options are rather limited (stereo line out, legacy MIDI and headphones, that's it) but the D1 is one of a kind, I believe. Don't think you'll find a keybed of that quality for that kind of money anywhere else...

Last edited by ChrisGoesPiano; 07/10/20 05:00 AM.

A long time ago, in a musical galaxy far, far away...
Eminent-Solina B412, Yamaha DX21, Yamaha V50, Yamaha U1

21st century...
Kawai MP11SE, Kawai CA58
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000946 07/10/20 05:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 180
_
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
_
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 180
I've noticed this disturbing effect in the ES110 and ES8. Surprisingly it was much less pronounced and not really disturbing in the CN39, which supposedly has the same action as the ES8. There is a bit of bouncing back also with FP90 and other well regarded DPs, and also many acoustic pianos. Fast key return is important for key repetition rate, and it is probably very difficult to combine it with a totally smooth stop.

Maybe someone has already tried fixing this in the plastic Kawai key actions by replacing or modifiying (raising) one or two felt strips?

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Doug M. #3000948 07/10/20 05:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
R
Ragha Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Thank you Doug for the reply. I am from India and used DP market is very minimal. I did not find any used one in the last two months. So I have to go for the new one.

Once I buy this instrument, I need to use for a minimum of 3 years before thinking of an upgrade(budget reasons). That's why I am worried so much.

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000955 07/10/20 06:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,121
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,121
IMHO that noise from the keys in the ES110 is perfectly normal. All Kawai plastic actions make some noises like that, even their RHIII actions you can find on more expensive models, like the ES8, the MP7SE and the CN series. I don't care so much for that type of noise, but some people don't like it.

I have not tried the ES110 action, but I tried the P125 action and I found it very nice and light. It was much easier to make fast trills on the P125 compared with the (much heavier) RHIII action of my Kawai CN37. I would be surprised if the ES110 is even lighter than that. The P125 keyboard is very quiet, from what I remember.

About the sound engine, I think the P125 wins if you talk about the quality of the piano samples. IMHO the Yamaha samples are nicer and more realistic sounding.

If you talk about "dynamics", then the winner is the ES110, with a greater perceived tonal range from pianissimo to fortissimo.

The P125 has an USB port for data and MIDI. The ES110 has no USB connections.

My suggestion: buy the instrument that feels better to you when you play it, to your fingers and to your ears. Don't let those little rebound noises influence you. If the noises from the keys bother you so much, then you should consider a model with wooden keys, but they are (much) more expensive. Or maybe you could buy a P125 now and after some years, upgrade to a much better model (or use the piano as a MIDI controller with a good VST piano library).

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000958 07/10/20 06:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,880
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,880
Originally Posted by Ragha
Thank you Doug for the reply. I am from India and used DP market is very minimal. I did not find any used one in the last two months. So I have to go for the new one.

Once I buy this instrument, I need to use for a minimum of 3 years before thinking of an upgrade(budget reasons). That's why I am worried so much.

Hi Ragha,

The question of the rebound noise is a bit moot IMO. the ES110 probably has one of the best actions (along with the Roland FP30) at that price point.

I would still advise you attempt to find more about the used market in India: what other websites sell used stuff; whether they have Facebook marketplace there etc., but there are more pressing matters when it comes to learning a skill like piano.

You are a beginner pianist and there is a heck of a lot to learn---the basics and getting a fully qualified teacher are key to developing "Deliberate Practice", without which, you won't improve enough to keep you motivated.
Piano is one of the most rewarding instruments once you get going, but in the beginning, learning the most efficient way is key to development.

How your piano sounds, any noises etc., are less important than developing the ability to finger, clap-and-count aloud, develop harmonic sense (scales), learn pedalling technique etc.

I would toss a coin on the FP30 or ES110, and just go for it.
Do your research on getting a good teacher, as learning things ineffeciently can generate almost as much work to undo bad habits as it takes to learn from scratch.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000967 07/10/20 06:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 354
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 354
My ES110 arrives later today - I've been waiting for weeks. Years ago, I tried the Yamaha P-125 - not impressed. It's not even in the same league as the ES110. I own their MP11. All of the digitals with hammer action make some noise. I also own Casio PX5S, which has a much better action than the Yamaha P-125.

I play saxophone to (main axe, actually). Keys make noise. Who cares? It's part of a musical instrument. Bounce? So what?

You can try to buy an ES110 from any American store and you will see that they are backordered. I'd snap that one up while you can!


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000970 07/10/20 07:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,052
U
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,052
I'm also interested in both models, for a busking purpose.

I haven't played either of them yet, but judging from internet research, I would say the es110 has the best action, and is more expressive, but personally I like the p125's piano sound better.

I won't buy without trying, but for that reason i think it would be the p125 for me.

Btw isn't it about time for an update to be released for these models? At least for rhe es110. I wonder if the es120 would have sk-ex sound or something.

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Björn from Earth #3000978 07/10/20 07:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
R
Ragha Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Hi Björn from Earth,

Your reply reassures me a lot. I am somehow leaned towards ES110 itself. I will go and try the instrument once again. Thank you!

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Doug M. #3000986 07/10/20 07:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
R
Ragha Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Hi Ragha,

The question of the rebound noise is a bit moot IMO. the ES110 probably has one of the best actions (along with the Roland FP30) at that price point.

I would still advise you attempt to find more about the used market in India: what other websites sell used stuff; whether they have Facebook marketplace there etc., but there are more pressing matters when it comes to learning a skill like piano.

You are a beginner pianist and there is a heck of a lot to learn---the basics and getting a fully qualified teacher are key to developing "Deliberate Practice", without which, you won't improve enough to keep you motivated.
Piano is one of the most rewarding instruments once you get going, but in the beginning, learning the most efficient way is key to development.

How your piano sounds, any noises etc., are less important than developing the ability to finger, clap-and-count aloud, develop harmonic sense (scales), learn pedalling technique etc.

I would toss a coin on the FP30 or ES110, and just go for it.
Do your research on getting a good teacher, as learning things ineffeciently can generate almost as much work to undo bad habits as it takes to learn from scratch.

Kind regards,

Doug.

Doug,

Initially I started learning from youtube videos(Hoffman academy). Now I found an experienced and very good teacher and started attending classes for almost a month now. My teacher feels I am progressing nicely and suggested if I am serious in pursuing piano get a 88 weighted key piano. That's how my search started. May be I will go next week and buy es110.

Thank you for your valuable suggestions. I appreciate it a lot.

Regards,
Ragha

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Skyscrapersax #3000992 07/10/20 08:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,121
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
[...]Years ago, I tried the Yamaha P-125 - not impressed. It's not even in the same league as the ES110.[...]
A very bold statement... The P125 and the ES110 are definitely in the same league. They are both 2 nice entry-level digital pianos with similar quality but very different sound timbre. There is not a clear winner there. I tried the P125 some time ago and I liked very much its action. It was light and easy to play, and definitely quieter than the RHIII action of my DP.
I think you cannot go wrong with both of them.

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3000996 07/10/20 08:27 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,470
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,470
Originally Posted by Ragha
My question is does one get used to that rebound noise? Any suggestions to make my decision are much appreciated.
This is the noise I am referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxLIMcmz0f0
If you are able to access an acoustic piano you will find the rebound noise is also noticeable, and it varies between pianos. If you have access to a silent acoustic, you can also hear noise from the down action because the hammer isn't striking the string so there's no music to drown out the sound of the action.

That video doesn't represent what you are trying to accomplish when you learn to play. The goal is to develop subtle control of the key, not slam it down with one finger and then let it slam up. You will hear some of this kind of noise when you learn to play staccato but normally I don't think you will find it significant. At a beginning level I think you could go years and be very happy with either of these pianos as an entry point. My best friend has an ES110 and I like it very much, it's easy for me to play when I visit him even though I normally play an acoustic. I have also played a P125 and find the touch a bit less to my liking, but that's personal preference and not a criticism of the piano.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3001013 07/10/20 09:39 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 57
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 57
I can say from experience that the ES-110 action is very noisy, especially the loud rebound that you mentioned. When I played it my neighbors could not hear the sound, but they complained about the loud thumping of the keys. The rebound noise also bothered me because it was very distracting when playing softer pieces (it was like, playing nice and smooth, then you release the keys and... WHACK! It really took away from the experience.) In the end I had to return it.

The ES-110 Action is the lightest that I've ever tried, and I know that some people prefer that. But that's really a personal thing so you would have to form an opinion about it's feel yourself.

The P-125 action does not have the keyboard noise issues.

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3001018 07/10/20 09:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,201
D
dmd Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,201
Considering your reaction to the rebound sound of the ES110, I think you should just go with the Yamaha P-125 ...

Otherwise this issue will always be with you as you play.

Good Luck


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used), Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Mackie MIX 5 Compact Mixer.
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3001020 07/10/20 10:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 686
A
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 686
- Light or heavy keybed: That's not an issue. The difference is minor and most likely whoever complains is not a normal player. The arguments in this forum are over 1ms or few grams which our biological system has proven to be unable to detect them scientifically.

- Software and Piano samples: Although it's personal, I tend to like Kawai for several reasons. The major
one is Yamaha, in general, is parsimonious in adding better technology to its non-flagship product ranges.

- The noise of the key-action: I don't think it is anything realistic. Acoustic Piano has the worst sounding action ever considering all its internal mechanics. The hammer action and the damper pedal are the worst but even the best pianists don't give a single care about these noises.

If you like ES-110, buy it. They are 99.99% the same as the competition is really tight in this segment and I agree that Kawai sounds better.

Last edited by Abdol; 07/10/20 10:04 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Ragha #3001027 07/10/20 10:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 800
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 800
About the noise, ES8 also has that rebound and it is disturbing at times, especially when practicing arpeggios. Most of the time I do not mind but there are times it is very frustrating. If ES110 is worse in this regards, then it would be a NO-NO to me. Of course, just my opinion.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
Abdol #3001144 07/10/20 02:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,121
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by Abdol
- Light or heavy keybed: That's not an issue. The difference is minor and most likely whoever complains is not a normal player.[...]

You are right, we "normal" pianists don't care a fu*k about light or heavy action! To us they are all the same!

[Linked Image]
^ a typical normal pianist...

Re: Help! Choosing between ES110 and P-125 for beginner
magicpiano #3001201 07/10/20 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 354
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 354
To each his own, of course, I thought the P-125 was lame city, action-wise, and at the time, I bought the Casio PX5S, which has excellent action, runs on batteries, is a but fantastic MIDI controller, etc.

I own the Kawai MP11. I feel that Kawai has the best action of any digital piano. I preferred the Casio to the Yamaha P-255 (precurser of their 515), and place the Kawai above all of them (except the MP11). Some people prefer the 110 to the 11!

Young James just did a head to head of the P-125 and the ES110.... uTube...


"Music Is Inherently Evanescent. Once You Play It, It's Gone In The Air" ~ Eric Dolphy

Selmer Mark VI Tenor Saxophone (1973), Selmer Mark VI Alto Saxophone (1956), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Saxophone (1987), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (2013), Kawai 11, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (1969).
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
rhythm vs beautiful sound/overall effect.
by daoc2009 - 08/07/20 01:08 PM
Sforzandi in Beethoven
by samwitdangol - 08/07/20 11:27 AM
Production Voices - sfz libs are on sale
by VladK - 08/07/20 10:14 AM
Top end digital pianos??
by Chrisgilx - 08/07/20 10:00 AM
Kawai ES110 pedal options
by Jonesy038 - 08/07/20 06:38 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,779
Posts2,989,143
Members98,052
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4