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Bösendorfer 120
#3000082 07/08/20 12:01 AM
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Did Bösendorfer recently reissue Their 120 Upright

I don’t recall seeing it on Their site a few weeks ago, but it’s listed there now

Bösendorfer Grand Upright 120

Perhaps I just didn’t see it before

I looked on YouTube, but no videos of a newer Bosie 120

Finally, searching the archives here, I come up with 1 thread on a 120, but suspect that was a later model

Has anyone seen or played a recent Bösendorfer 120 Upright. Obviously the 130 is well known. Curious how the 120 compares


~Lucubrate


Bösendorfer 280VC
Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
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Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000134 07/08/20 05:37 AM
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I have played a new - but it was in a very different room from where I played the 130. It's not fundamentally different and I'd say touch is the same, i.e. very good.

It has a warm and pleasant sound but (and I find this in all Bösendorfers I've played so far) the warmth comes at the price of less-than perfect clarity (still very good though) if the piece is very busy around the middle C.
Compared the Sauters I feel it's a bit less powerful which can be a good thing or not depending on what you want...

Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000173 07/08/20 08:18 AM
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Bösendorfer lacks clarity? Nah....

Re: Bösendorfer 120
dhull100 #3000174 07/08/20 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dhull100
Bösendorfer lacks clarity? Nah....
Compare the Bösendorfer 120 to the Steinway 125 or a Grotrian of similar size and you will hear what I mean.
It doesn't LACK clarity (I even literally wrote that) but among its peers it's not as sparkly. You can hear it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOdvxdYOWZI

Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000232 07/08/20 11:41 AM
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Keybender - Thanks for the feedback

When I searched past threads for a new Bösendorfer 120, Your experience was the only one I could find. If I recall correctly, that was in early 2020

I’m curious if Bösendorfer just released the 120 as a new model. I know They produced Them decades ago


~Lucubrate

Last edited by Lucubrate; 07/08/20 11:43 AM.

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Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000240 07/08/20 12:03 PM
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I talked to a B. dealer recently and he told me that B. used to make a 120 until the 90s(?) and then stopped. They restarted it with a new 120 relatively recently.

I think this is what they look like:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.klavierwunsch.nl%2Fdata%2Fimage%2Fpiano%2F11%2Fimg-11-539-1601.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.klavierwunsch.nl%2Fgebrauchtes-klavier-oder-fluegel%2F539%2Fboesendorfer-120%2Fstuttgart%2Fpiano-fischer-stuttgart&tbnid=KUH8jXylikoiIM&vet=12ahUKEwiHg9Xzgr7qAhX6wAIHHWLtADIQMygBegUIARCpAQ..i&docid=NgC5e-2eNAVX4M&w=1024&h=768&itg=1&q=b%C3%B6sendorfer%20120%201985&ved=2ahUKEwiHg9Xzgr7qAhX6wAIHHWLtADIQMygBegUIARCpAQ

Re: Bösendorfer 120
Keybender #3000246 07/08/20 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Keybender
I talked to a B. dealer recently and he told me that B. used to make a 120 until the 90s(?) and then stopped. They restarted it with a new 120 relatively recently.

I think this is what they look like:

Okay - That makes sense.

As far as looks - If You go to the Bösendorfer site (link below), then scroll to the bottom, They have pictures of the 120. What’s interesting is it appears to be available in 2 different front panel designs. In the information above the pictures, Bösendorfer states, “ Optionally, this Grand Upright can be equipped with the Bösendorfer Sound Release System providing two additional sound slots at the front panel.”

I’m guessing This is the reason for the different front panel designs.

Bösendorfer 120 Upright


~Lucubrate


Bösendorfer 280VC
Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000279 07/08/20 01:49 PM
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Lucubrate,

The 120 is not slated to be distributed in North America at this point. It will be difficult to find one to play on this side of the pond.


Rich Galassini
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Re: Bösendorfer 120
Rich Galassini #3000287 07/08/20 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Lucubrate,

The 120 is not slated to be distributed in North America at this point. It will be difficult to find one to play on this side of the pond.

Good to know - Thanks!

Off-topic a bit,.. but while I have Your attention, would You mind sharing Your Opinion of the Bösendorfer 130


~Lucubrate

Last edited by Lucubrate; 07/08/20 02:02 PM.

Bösendorfer 280VC
Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000336 07/08/20 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucubrate
Off-topic a bit,.. but while I have Your attention, would You mind sharing Your Opinion of the Bösendorfer 130


~Lucubrate

Sure - it is one of the reasons I love Bösendorfer. They are incredible instruments.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
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Re: Bösendorfer 120
Keybender #3000341 07/08/20 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Keybender
Originally Posted by dhull100
Bösendorfer lacks clarity? Nah....
Compare the Bösendorfer 120 to the Steinway 125 or a Grotrian of similar size and you will hear what I mean.
It doesn't LACK clarity (I even literally wrote that) but among its peers it's not as sparkly. You can hear it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOdvxdYOWZI
How many Bosendorfer 130's did you try Keybender?

Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000475 07/09/20 02:38 AM
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2 in person (1 very briefly admittedly) and of course extensive research on YouTube which in this case actually worth something I'd claim.
And a new 120 extensively which sounds very similar except for the bass which is a bit weaker.

I still don't get why it seems to be an issue when I say it's not as sparkly as piano X. We're talking top uprights here, this is tough competition... Nuances count! If you want the brightest, sparkliest upright, maybe go for different brand - I fell the linked video illustrates this quite well.

Let me reiterate: compared to other well made pianos such as the top Kawai, Yamaha, Schimmel or the "simpler" Sauter models the B. is clearly ahead in all aspects.

Last edited by Keybender; 07/09/20 02:48 AM.
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Keybender #3000489 07/09/20 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Keybender
2 in person (1 very briefly admittedly) and of course extensive research on YouTube which in this case actually worth something I'd claim.
And a new 120 extensively which sounds very similar except for the bass which is a bit weaker.

I still don't get why it seems to be an issue when I say it's not as sparkly as piano X. We're talking top uprights here, this is tough competition... Nuances count! If you want the brightest, sparkliest upright, maybe go for different brand - I fell the linked video illustrates this quite well.

Let me reiterate: compared to other well made pianos such as the top Kawai, Yamaha, Schimmel or the "simpler" Sauter models the B. is clearly ahead in all aspects.
I did not know that there was such a thing as a "simpler"
Sauters.
In your original statement you claimed that the Bosendorfer 130 LACKED CLARITY.
To put a "simple" Kawai and "simple" Yamaha next to a what you call a "simple" Schimmel and a "simple" Sauter you are looking a price difference of at least 3 or nearly 4 times the price in the German pianos compared to the Japanese pianos.
By the way your "objective" research on Youtube ,I would say is nor worth much at all.
By what you wrote ,at least one of the 120 Bosendorfer uprights you tried seemed a little old.So we
are not at all sure what the true condition of this piano is like.Another problem !

Yes we are talking of ultimate uprights, so would you say such an upright would lack clarity ?
I would say lacking clarity is a BIG issue and Bosendorfer 130's do NOT lack clarity.
You cannot just sweep it under the rug now and start talking about what you consider "simple" pianos.
When talking about the ULTIMATE one needs to be a bit more of an artist than you are.Do you really
have such experience to judge the ultimate piano when you seem to have such difficulty with the simple ??? I would say you can play musically , but I have also heard you struggle with that Chopin Nocturne op 9 no 1 in Bflat minor.You see I still have a good memory !

Last edited by Lady Bird; 07/09/20 04:12 AM. Reason: spelling
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000496 07/09/20 05:11 AM
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Of course there are simpler Sauters - they have their master class series and there other series, e.g. ragazza or vista models.
I played one of the Sauter design models recently, briefly and it sounded nowhere near as good as the masterclass model.

A Sauter Ragazza goes for much less than a Masterclass even though they are the same size. The top Yamaha uprights are almost in that price range, the Kawai K800 is a bit less expensive still. Please point me to a source where there is a 3-4 times price difference between top Yamaha / Kawai / Schimmel and simple Sauter (maybe 20-30% tops).

To quote myself: "other well made pianos such as the top Kawai, Yamaha, Schimmel or the "simpler" Sauter". The point here is "top". We're not talking K-300 or U-1 or below that.

Then there is Bösendorfer and Steinway which are >35k.


As a reminder - I wrote:
"It has a warm and pleasant sound but (and I find this in all Bösendorfers I've played so far) the warmth comes at the price of less-than perfect clarity (still very good though) if the piece is very busy around the middle C."

How does that say that it lacks clarity? The old 120 I played lacked clarity but this was not the topic of discussion here and I would not judge the completely new 120 model based on the old design especially since it was not fully reconditioned. OP asked about the current 120 model.

By the way, I don't like the way you make this about me personally. I described my experience, I even brought recordings to the table. Is this really necessary?
I'm far from a proficient player (it took me months of practicing the piece to even get to the level you heard) but I will still say that Engerer's interpretation beats most other interpretations of this piece by far.

My suggestion to return to a productive discussion: listen to the YouTube recording that directly compares the models and maybe we find out that what I think of as clarity is not what you and the OP think of as clarity. Maybe even dig up an example of a piano recording that shows of what you perceive as perfect clarity and another one of what does not.

Last edited by Keybender; 07/09/20 05:12 AM.
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lady Bird #3000504 07/09/20 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
When talking about the ULTIMATE one needs to be a bit more of an artist than you are.Do you really
have such experience to judge the ultimate piano when you seem to have such difficulty with the simple ??? I would say you can play musically , but I have also heard you struggle with that Chopin Nocturne op 9 no 1 in Bflat minor.You see I still have a good memory !

I think this was unnecessary. And I am getting weary of moderator reports on your posts. Am I going to have to remedy this or will you?


Ken

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Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000523 07/09/20 07:45 AM
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Lucubrate, this is what I was actually looking for (the old model): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZOZ99tiNo

Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lucubrate #3000633 07/09/20 12:14 PM
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Keybender
I am sorry about being critical of your playing Keybender.
If you looked more carefully at the prices in Piano Buyer you will see the SMP prices of Sauter uprights.
The price for the Ragazza is $36,000 and the SMP price for the my piano $39,900
The U1 price in Canada is $12,000 ,we bought ours for$9,000 (new)
You can do the arithmetic.
In the OTHER thread Lucubrate headed "Bosendorfer, Bechstein ,Sauter" etc , you made a clear statement saying the Bosendorfer 130 is has an unclear tone.In fact poster "dhull" contradicted you.You suggested the Bosendorfer 120 instead. Most manufacturers put a great deal of work into thier 130 sized instruments. Your respnse about simple Sauters and Schimmel's was really just spite. ONLY because I asked HOW OFTEN you played the Bosendorfer 130 ?
You never once mentioned the the very top Yamaha upright which is well over $30,000 ,you simply mentioned Schimmel's ,Kawai's, Yamaha's and then the "simpler Sauters" where none are less than
$30,000.
However I sure the it is clear to everyone that your response was just meant to be hurtfull because I suggested you may not have played enough Bosendorfer 130 pianos.
I suggest the moderator read in your one of your first posts how myself and another poster tried to help you find your ultimate piano and how you lead us through many pages to no avail. I do not like to ever use the word trolling however. I even received PM's from another poster in that thread about
your behavior.
I realise my response to you last night was not nice but it was in response to your spiteful response
to a simple question.No where here have I implied that my piano is the ultimate piano in this post.
So if I am now if I am banned I hope everyone may see it is unfair.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 07/09/20 12:20 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Bösendorfer 120
dhull100 #3000654 07/09/20 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dhull100
Bösendorfer lacks clarity? Nah....
Here another poster responds to your statement about Bosendorfer's top upright "something about
lacking in clarity" ? Thats it I am not saying another word.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 07/09/20 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Keybender #3000660 07/09/20 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Keybender
Lucubrate, this is what I was actually looking for (the old model): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZOZ99tiNo

I watched that video as well - Was the only one I could find on YouTube, featuring a Bösendorfer 120

It’s a wonderful piano in My opinion, & the Dealer does an excellent job showcasing it. I’ve watched a few videos from this particular dealer, & have been impressed by all over Them


~Lucubrate


Bösendorfer 280VC
Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Bösendorfer 120
Lady Bird #3000676 07/09/20 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Keybender
Originally Posted by dhull100
Bösendorfer lacks clarity? Nah....
Compare the Bösendorfer 120 to the Steinway 125 or a Grotrian of similar size and you will hear what I mean.
It doesn't LACK clarity (I even literally wrote that) but among its peers it's not as sparkly. You can hear it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOdvxdYOWZI
How many Bosendorfer 130's did you try Keybender?

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