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N1X vs CA79
#2999568 07/06/20 07:03 PM
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I am thinking about buying CA79 or N1X. You may regard it weird since they are in completely different price ranges. The reason I narrowed down to these two is that CA79 has the best key action among digitals (which I believe) and N1X is an entry-level hybrid that is affordable and has a real grand key action. I can afford N1X. But the question is: is it really worth paying double to get N1X (around $6999) instead of CA79 (around $3200).
I heavily use my headphone so the Soundboard does not really matter too much to me. More concerned about the touch. I play classical.

Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999597 07/06/20 07:59 PM
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Hello pianissimo_,

If you have not done so already, I would recommend play-testing both pianos thoroughly, and purchasing the instrument that you prefer.

If your primary concern is touch realism, the N1X is the better choice of the two, as the action is based on that of an acoustic grand, as opposed to being a simulation. However, some players believe that the NV10 offers an even more realistic playing experience than the AvantGrand.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999599 07/06/20 07:59 PM
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You should try the CA79 and see if spending on the N1X is worth it. N1X action is much much better than CA79 action.


Finally bought the P515
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999735 07/07/20 04:04 AM
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And if you can, play test them more than once. My opinion changed over time.


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Re: N1X vs CA79
PapaJohn #2999738 07/07/20 04:52 AM
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Yes. But are you referring to opinions of the action? Or of the sound?
Originally Posted by PapaJohn
And if you can, play test them more than once. My opinion changed over time.

Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999766 07/07/20 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes. But are you referring to opinions of the action? Or of the sound?
Originally Posted by PapaJohn
And if you can, play test them more than once. My opinion changed over time.

Both.

Last edited by PapaJohn; 07/07/20 06:54 AM. Reason: adding context

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Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999770 07/07/20 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by pianissimo_
I am thinking about buying CA79 or N1X. You may regard it weird since they are in completely different price ranges. The reason I narrowed down to these two is that CA79 has the best key action among digitals (which I believe) and N1X is an entry-level hybrid that is affordable and has a real grand key action. I can afford N1X. But the question is: is it really worth paying double to get N1X (around $6999) instead of CA79 (around $3200).
I heavily use my headphone so the Soundboard does not really matter too much to me. More concerned about the touch. I play classical.

Hi pianissimo,

The value of the instrument is down to your own subjective judgement and your experience.
Obviously, if having a real acoustic action is your goal (whilst remaining digital in terms of sound), then the N1X and NV10 are the two models to compare.
If you are happy with the CA79 action in comparison to the above mentioned, then what you value determines the purchase.

There are folks here who really value the realism of the action and feel that is the main factor. Obviously, for them, this trumps price concerns.

What you're asking us to do is validate the choice for you; however, I don't think we can! Until you compare these instruments for yourself, how will you have that sensation of playing them i.e., which would enable you to evaluate the cost-benefit to owning a hybrid?

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999827 07/07/20 10:50 AM
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Thank you all.

I believe the point of asking such a question on the forum is to ask for your opinions. If I got the chance to compare those two models side by side, play them for hours and feel the nuance, I don't need to ask that.

Plus, even if I could do that, my own feel might be totally wrong. I may have developed bad techniques I may be emotional I may be tricked by the sound.

So please, please give your aggressive (even biased) opinion. That's I am asking for. Would you be wiling to pay double to get an N1X instead of CA79? I'd love to hear that.

Thanks!

Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999828 07/07/20 10:59 AM
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This is a matter which you can only decide for yourself if it is worth it. Just weeks ago I found myself in a similar situation. I was pondering between the CA99 and N1X. In the end, I went ahead with the N1X.


- Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
- VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial / Garritan CFX Concert Grand
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999846 07/07/20 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pianissimo_
So please, please give your aggressive (even biased) opinion. That's I am asking for. Would you be wiling to pay double to get an N1X instead of CA79? I'd love to hear that.
Biased opinion: I did that. I compared a CA78, an N1X, and an NV10, and bought the N1X early last year. After owning the N1X for 12 months, am I sorry? No.


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Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999870 07/07/20 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pianissimo_
Would you be wiling to pay double to get an N1X instead of CA79? I'd love to hear that.
Thanks!

I think this really depends on how much you value having a true acoustic grand action in your DP. Personally, I value that a lot (I have an NV-10). So between the two, if this was going to be my only piano for the next 3-5+ years, I'd go for the N1X. If I was expecting to trade up or get an acoustic within the next few years, I might go for the CA79 instead to have a quality silent practice piano.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999871 07/07/20 12:19 PM
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Years ago, I chose the CA95 over the N2 because of the price difference. I loved my CA95, but not a month went by that I didn't regret that decision. A few weeks ago, I finally fixed my earlier mistake, and bought an NV10. Piano is my primary hobby and I have the money, so I have no clue why I didn't chose the N2 in the first place. If I had bought the N2, I wouldn't have upgraded this year. I'd be holding out at least one more generation.


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Re: N1X vs CA79
Gombessa #2999873 07/07/20 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by pianissimo_
Would you be wiling to pay double to get an N1X instead of CA79? I'd love to hear that.
Thanks!

I think this really depends on how much you value having a true acoustic grand action in your DP.

To be able to value the grand action, the best thing to do is to try it. I have tried some AvantGrand (unfortunately no NV10), then I know that the N1X is worth the extra money, but it is a personal view.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999874 07/07/20 12:25 PM
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To those buying the digitals for around 10k:

How long do you expect to use the product before you upgrade?

My concern regarding buying such expensive digitals is that they might not have the durability of a good acoustic.

Re: N1X vs CA79
greypiano #2999883 07/07/20 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by greypiano
To those buying the digitals for around 10k:

How long do you expect to use the product before you upgrade?

My concern regarding buying such expensive digitals is that they might not have the durability of a good acoustic.

They won't. IMO, you're not paying for the durability, you're paying for a better "digital" experience, and not 50-100 year life. Again IMO, 10 years is a reasonable expectation with some minor maintenance work, but once you get to 15-20 years, all bets are off. With a hybrid, maybe the electronics still work and you can use it with a VST (as some folks are doing with old GranTouches), but you can expect the sound engine to be well obsolete by that time.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999885 07/07/20 12:42 PM
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I plan to buy one and replace it when I would not be able to make it repaired when needed.

I think the RGE (Real Grand Expression) tone generator of Yamaha to be good enough, the action will not make progress and my PC is not far and can run virtual piano which are at the state of art if I need a better piano sound.

Note : I have a CLP150 bought in 2003... it will be 17 years old.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 07/07/20 12:45 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999886 07/07/20 12:43 PM
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Oh, they’re durable. The Grantouch has been around for over twenty years and it’s still going strong on ebay.

The one thing that’ll become a serious problem will be the implied obsolescence once the new model comes out. In reality your ‘old model’ will be perfectly fine, but we’ll work hard to make you think otherwise.

“The samples on your dinosaur are ten years old; I have the new model with not only new super-long samples but also RGEXX2 modeling.”

Within a few days you will give in to GAS, and we would consider our job done and proceed onto the next victim! grin

Re: N1X vs CA79
Frédéric L #2999890 07/07/20 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Again IMO, 10 years is a reasonable expectation with some minor maintenance work, but once you get to 15-20 years, all bets are off. With a hybrid, maybe the electronics still work and you can use it with a VST (as some folks are doing with old GranTouches), but you can expect the sound engine to be well obsolete by that time.
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
I plan to buy one and replace it when I would not be able to make it repaired when needed.

I think the RGE (Real Grand Expression) tone generator of Yamaha to be good enough, the action will not make progress and my PC is not far and can run virtual piano which are at the state of art if I need a better piano sound.

Thanks for the answers.

I also think that the "sound" part of it is likely to get obsolete relatively fast, and I am also only paying for the action.

Everyone will have a different reservation price, for that expected duration the price of the "better digitial experience" is to steep for me, compared to the outside options.

Didn't kawai have an actual small acoustic grand with integrated electronics to record digital? I couldn't find it quickly. Is the price of that so much steeper?

Re: N1X vs CA79
pianissimo_ #2999891 07/07/20 12:55 PM
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Due to Mr. Pandemic, I was not able to test pianos before purchasing (and I didn't want to wait). So I did a lot of searching reviews and forums. Like the OP, I was interested mainly in silent playing, and less interested in on-board speakers and soundboards.

Based on that, I went with the CA79.

Then, diving deeper into the forums (after purchase), I learned of the N1X and thought, "why have 1 unit when you can have 2 at twice the price?" smile As the movie quote goes. So then, for a brief few hours, I kicked myself a little because I could have stretched to reach the N1X.

Then I thought more realistically, from a financial point of view, and thought to be "safe"/"comfortable," I'd probably do a small loan for part of the cost of the N1X. And I really hate loans and credit, so I dismissed the thought.

After that brief few hours of "buyer's remorse," and after spending a few weeks with the CA79, I have become enormously happy with it. I do use an external VST, but that's more for hobby/enjoyment/variation/"G.A.S." than necessity. The on-board sounds are excellent as-is. And it's very compact and handsome looking as well. There's a psychological effect at play here, I know (I studied this at university!), but it happens regardless of knowledge! smile

So if I had unlimited funds, I'd probably do the N1X. And I could have, even without a loan, but it would have clipped too close to the corner for "Murphy's Law."

I'm very happy with the CA79. In either case, you will probably doubt yourself and flip-flop many times - even after purchase! But you can't go wrong with either unit.


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: N1X vs CA79
greypiano #2999893 07/07/20 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by greypiano
To those buying the digitals for around 10k:

How long do you expect to use the product before you upgrade?

My concern regarding buying such expensive digitals is that they might not have the durability of a good acoustic.

Hm. Is this math right? Back-of-the-envelope calculation here, but comparing a 30k acoustic to a 10k digital, the savings is 20k. I'm using 30k because the C3X is the point where I do prefer acoustic over any digital. So let's assume a 6% investment return, a digital piano inflation rate of 3%, ignore maintenance costs, and ignore resale value. Under those assumptions I can buy a new digital every 10 years for the rest of my life and enjoy what I expect to be an amazing ride in terms of how these machines evolve and come out the same as having bought the 30k instrument now.


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