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Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
EVC2017 #2999362 07/06/20 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Casio PX-5S?

Ah, that one!

11 kg / 24 pounds.

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Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
bill5 #2999383 07/06/20 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bill5
Originally Posted by Abdol
76 keys will take care of what you need. I don’t think you would ever need the 8th octave. You will most likely Can play 99.9% of songs you want with only 76 keys.
I wouldn't go quite that far, but would consider. Do you know of any 76-key synth action controllers? Really 76 keys is rare in general.

Quote
Also m audio key station mkII has the synth action keys.
Nope, semi-weighted. Thanks though!

It's synth action. It's not like piano action. The keys just look like a piano but at the action, itself is synth-action like Yamaha's PSR series.

Define what semi-weighted you mean?!

Definition of synth action here

Any 76 key keyboard will also act as a controller. MODX7 e.g. better action can be found in higher end flagship keyboards.

Last edited by Abdol; 07/06/20 08:27 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
EVC2017 #2999414 07/06/20 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by joemama42O
YPG-535 lol. well...
Originally Posted by bill5
? Semi-weighted is not synth action
YPG-535 is one of a number of Yamaha boards that uses their Graded Soft Touch action. It is not weighted at all. The graded sensation is not created with weights, but by increasing/decreasing the resistance in the sensors the keys hit when you depress them. It may or may not give you the feeling you're after, but technically, it is not a semi-weighted (or weighted) action. The place it misses your criteria is that it is a full keyboard with sounds, not just a controller. Though one can certainly just ignore its sounds, if one's "controller" needs are basic.

Personally, I find the distinction between semi-weighted and unweighted pretty pointless. Yes, the word does tell you whether or not there are any weights in the keys. But there are so many other variables that that, alone, doesn't tell you much about the action or how suitable it will be for your purposes (whatever they may be). I've played unweighted actions that have felt better (or played better for piano) than some semi-weighted actions, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Abdol
76 keys will take care of what you need. I don’t think you would ever need the 8th octave. You will most likely Can play 99.9% of songs you want with only 76 keys.
88 keys is not just for being able to play any song. It's also to have more space for splits. Also, even songs that don't "need" all the keys can sometimes benefit from having them there for improv/leads.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
When I was hunting keyboards, I tried quite a few "semi-weighted" actions --

. . . they felt like "synth action" to me.

The keys had no inertia.
Correct. Because adding weight to keys does not give you any piano-like inertia... inertia requires a hammer mechanism, which semi-weighted boards don't have. If they did, they wouldn't ve called semi-weighted anymore. ;-)

Originally Posted by EVC2017
Quote
My question is: are there any 88 key controllers WITH hammer weighted keys that are not heavy? Like 15 to 25 pounds? Probably impossible.
Casio PX-5S? Not exactly a controller but I see it used as such by several folks in another forum.
Although it has sounds, PX-5S actually has a lot of MIDI controller functionality in it. Even without using any of its sounds, it can function as a 4-zone MIDI controller with 6 assignable sliders, 4 assignable knobs, pitch/mod wheels, and both USB and 5-pin DIN MIDI connectivity.

There are some other sub-25 lb hammer action boards, especially if you're willing to drop below 88 keys. But if you go up a little to the 25-30 lbs range, there are many more.

Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
Nip #2999415 07/06/20 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nip
Originally Posted by bill5
I appreciate the replies, but semi-weighted is not synth action folks!
Yes, they are - they just changed naming. It's a joke what they call semiweighted.

"Sometimes" I think is really the answer there. I'll have to get out and try a few as it has been awhile, but as I recall what is called "semi-weighted" varies - some have a heavier/higher-tension feel than others, so more truly what I would expect (about half way between "synth action" and "weighted"). Some no doubt feel the same as synth action.

Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
bill5 #2999428 07/06/20 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bill5
"Sometimes" I think is really the answer there. I'll have to get out and try a few as it has been awhile, but as I recall what is called "semi-weighted" varies - some have a heavier/higher-tension feel than others
A "higher tension" gets back to what I said above, i.e. "there are so many other variables {besides weightedness} that that, alone, doesn't tell you much about the action or how suitable it will be for your purposes." Some unweighted actions exhibit more "tension" than some semi-weighted actions, and vice versa. "Heavier tension" and "heavier weight" are not the same thing. A higher sense of weight/mass in the key doesn't necessarily mean it takes more force to push it down (or keep it down). Some actual grand pianos have less resistance in their keys than some unweighted keyboard actions. That is, it can take less effort to move a grand piano key from its top position (or keep it held down at its bottom) than a keyboard key with no weight mechanism at all, but a high tension spring.

Originally Posted by bill5
so more truly what I would expect (about half way between "synth action" and "weighted").
Also getting back to my earlier post, there is no continuum of weight from none-to-half-to-full. What makes a "fully weighted" action feel different from a "semi weighted" is not that it has more weight, but that it has a hammer mechanism.

Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
anotherscott #2999457 07/06/20 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EVC2017
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My question is: are there any 88 key controllers WITH hammer weighted keys that are not heavy? Like 15 to 25 pounds? Probably impossible.
Casio PX-5S? Not exactly a controller but I see it used as such by several folks in another forum.
Although it has sounds, PX-5S actually has a lot of MIDI controller functionality in it. Even without using any of its sounds, it can function as a 4-zone MIDI controller with 6 assignable sliders, 4 assignable knobs, pitch/mod wheels, and both USB and 5-pin DIN MIDI connectivity.

There are some other sub-25 lb hammer action boards, especially if you're willing to drop below 88 keys. But if you go up a little to the 25-30 lbs range, there are many more.

I have the PX5S, but it's 3000 miles away. That's why I bought (and returned) the PXS3000 ( I didn't like the action, and I a-b'd it at GC to a 560, and I liked that action much better).

I currently use a 61 key Nektar Impact as my controller. It's so small and light (6 pounds), has decent synth action, and is low profile, which means that I can place it in front of my laptop and work.

I just bought the Numa Compact 2x. Not as low profile (close), but checks most the boxes. Does not have the 4 split MIDI functionality or other things of the PX5S though. 15.6 pounds.

I'm just wondering if there are any controllers that do better at that and have hammer action than the Numa, and still only weigh 15 pounds-ish...

As I wait for a Kawai ES110 to materialize.... Synth action is fine (and often preferable) to hammer action for using a DAW and non-piano VST instruments.

I think you mentioned that there are some.

Thanks...


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
Skyscrapersax #2999465 07/06/20 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
I just bought the Numa Compact 2x. Not as low profile (close), but checks most the boxes. Does not have the 4 split MIDI functionality or other things of the PX5S though. 15.6 pounds.

I'm just wondering if there are any controllers that do better at that and have hammer action than the Numa, and still only weigh 15 pounds-ish...
No, nothing close to 15 lbs. PX5S is the lightest Casio with the action you like, the slightly lighter new ones (i.e. CDP-S100) have the other action that you don't like and lack the MIDI functionality. The Dexibell S3 Pro is lighter than the Casio at 22.7 lbs and it is a 4-zone controller, but only 73 keys and in a different price range. Yamaha has the P-121 which is slightly lighter at 22 lbs, but also only 73 keys and with minimal MIDI functionality. Below 22 lbs, I think you're relegated to non-hammer boards.

Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
anotherscott #2999697 07/06/20 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
No, nothing close to 15 lbs. PX5S is the lightest Casio with the action you like, the slightly lighter new ones (i.e. CDP-S100) have the other action that you don't like and lack the MIDI functionality. The Dexibell S3 Pro is lighter than the Casio at 22.7 lbs and it is a 4-zone controller, but only 73 keys and in a different price range. Yamaha has the P-121 which is slightly lighter at 22 lbs, but also only 73 keys and with minimal MIDI functionality. Below 22 lbs, I think you're relegated to non-hammer boards.
I played a Dexibell S7 today at Sam Ash, the keybed was "OK." I assume it has the same keybed as the S3?

As it stands, I have (here in LA...) the Numa Compact 2x (can send it back but like it) and the Kawai ES110, which I can now get. That's $1300, but 15 and 25 pounds. I really have zero use for anything heavier.

For my $1300, is their a better solution than having these two boards? Doesn't sound like it.... Thanks for your input!


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
bill5 #2999742 07/07/20 04:02 AM
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What about the Dexibell P3? It's also backordered, but....


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
Skyscrapersax #2999804 07/07/20 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
I played a Dexibell S7 today at Sam Ash, the keybed was "OK." I assume it has the same keybed as the S3?
The actions are not the same. The S7 uses an action from the Fatar TP40 family, the S3 uses Fatar TP100. The TP100 gives the board a lighter travel weight, but it is generally seen as an inferior action in feel.

Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
What about the Dexibell P3? It's also backordered, but....
The P3 adds speakers (pretty decent ones), but the weight goes up to 27.5 lbs, and it loses MIDI controller functionality. It also uses the TP100.

Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
bill5 #2999889 07/07/20 11:53 AM
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Thank you! It appears that my split of Kawai Es110 and Numa Compact 2x isn't' that bad of an idea, perhaps? If it were possible (it isn't), I'd just have my PX5S shipped form NJ....


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Aren't there any 88-key synth action controllers?
bill5 #3000021 07/07/20 07:03 PM
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OP, In all seriousness, I have a Roland A-33 sitting unused in a corner. I think it's almost exactly what you're asking for except it's 76 keys rather than 88. Though some sites say "semi-weighted" that just means it has springs. It feels identical to the synths I use like my Korg Prophecy or my Roland Juno-106. There are no hammers, no grading, just a consistent slightly heaver than an organ feel across the board. It's from 1999 but it works perfectly and is in great condition. If you're interested, let me know.

Here's a guy playing it on YouTube and you can see in his description "The valuable light weight 76 keys midi controller"



Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
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