2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
69 members (36251, Anglagard44, Beemer, bwv872, beeboss, b4xter, Carey, 17 invisible), 508 guests, and 412 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
#2997931 07/02/20 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
I
iLaw Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
As some of you know, the current U.S. administration has been assessing additional "Section 301" duties on goods from China, including acoustic pianos. There has been a mechanism whereby a U.S. importer can request that certain products be excluded from these additional duties, and in fact last November 2019 a U.S. importer submitted a group of requests that all sizes of acoustic upright and grand pianos be excluded from the duties. The United States Trade Representative (USTR) has been sitting on those requests ever since, however, neither granting nor denying them.

There are now indications in the wind that most, if not all, of those pending piano exclusion requests may be granted in the near future. But here's the rub ... unless the USTR changes it's policy, the exclusions (which FYI would be retroactive for past shipments) would ordinarily expire on September 1, 2020, in less than two months. In fact the USTR has already opened a docket to request the renewal of any such granted requests, and the deadline for requesting a renewal of any grants of exclusion on acoustic pianos could be as early as the end of this month (since there's been no piano exclusion granted yet, there's no current deadline for requesting an extension of the exclusion).

Meaning that, if the USTR grants these exclusion requests in the near future, importers might have only days to request that the exclusions be renewed before they probably would expire in September.

I don't have a piano client in this matter, and all of this is public information, so no conflicts or confidentialities going on here, but I know that there's been a lot of interest on the forum in Chinese pianos, and there may be wailing and gnashing of teeth (or cheering!) if duty exclusions are granted that expire in September and the deadline for requesting an extension of the exclusion was in July.

This is the stuff that gets me out of bed early in the morning ...

Larry.

(ad int) Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #2997940 07/02/20 04:43 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,893
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,893
Thank you for keeping us apprised of the situation, iLaw.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
terminaldegree #2997955 07/02/20 05:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Thank you for keeping us apprised of the situation, iLaw.

Yes, thanks, Larry. Interesting stuff.

So, the next obvious questions would be, can whomever requested the piano exclusions proactively request an extension on the assumption that the initial request will be approved, or must they be predicated on an approved initial exclusion? And what happens if the initial request expires w/o being approved?


Anyway, just like you have no conflicts of interest, I have no interest beyond curiosity, but obviously many people in our community--buyers and importers alike--do have an interest in this.



Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see
~Mark Twain
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
Retsacnal #2997992 07/02/20 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
I
iLaw Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
So, the next obvious questions would be, can whomever requested the piano exclusions proactively request an extension on the assumption that the initial request will be approved, or must they be predicated on an approved initial exclusion?

No, there's no docket available to post a request for an extension of an exclusion that hasn't been granted yet (and might never be granted). That said, forewarned is forearmed, and there are other actions that an importer could take to (a) be ready to immediately request an extension if an exclusion was granted and time was tight, and (b) preserve the opportunity to get refunds on past shipments if/when an exclusion is eventually granted. These exclusion requests are now so old that there is a good chance that, unless an importer has taken appropriate action to keep the refund window open, an exclusion request could be granted but it would be too late to ask for refunds, particularly on early Section 301 tariffed shipments.

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
And what happens if the initial request expires w/o being approved?

Well the initial request can't really expire, but eventually I would expect the USTR to clear out this docket by going through and making decisions on all of the still pending requests. As of this writing, however, there are still over 6,500 exclusion requests pending just from the batch of tariff classifications that include the handful of piano requests we're talking about. All 6,500+ of these pending exclusion requests are now approaching a year old.

Larry.

Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #2998010 07/02/20 07:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313
Thanks again for the feedback, Larry! Obviously, the specificity of the legal vocabulary also tends to go over my head!

6,500 sounds like a lot of paperwork backed up... but I don't know their staff's capacity to process it.

Well, ideally the requests will be approved, and hopefully the parties who requested them are keeping up with the situation. If not, perhaps your observations here will nudge them in the right direction.



Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see
~Mark Twain
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #2998016 07/02/20 07:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,378
j&j Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,378
Thank you for sharing the information, Larry. I have no “skin in the game” on this topic but there will be effects on the acoustic piano market as least in the US.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #2998145 07/03/20 08:11 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,077
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,077
Thanks Larry.


Piano Industry Consultant

Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #3000627 07/09/20 11:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
I
iLaw Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
Update for those who are interested. As discussed in my earlier postings, the USTR just issued China Section 301 tariff exclusions for Chinese acoustic upright and grand pianos (HTS Subheadings 9201.10 and 9201.20), granting all of the pending exclusion requests for these pianos except one; the USTR did not grant an exclusion for grand pianos less than 152.40 cm (5 ft) in length. Interesting because there was no public objection or other comment posted on that particular request.

As predicted, the tariff exclusions are retroactive, and currently extend to September 1, 2020.

Larry.

Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #3000644 07/09/20 12:30 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,893
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,893
Originally Posted by iLaw
except one; the USTR did not grant an exclusion for grand pianos less than 152.40 cm (5 ft) in length. Interesting because there was no public objection or other comment posted on that particular request.

Ouch! There are a lot of 150cm sized grands made in China. I guess they're doing us a service by encouraging people to consider larger grand pianos...


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #3000650 07/09/20 12:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 56
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 56
Doesn't that mean that Japanese and other larger manufacturers of uprights will sell more in the USA?


1928 Mason & Hamlin Model A
Play it as a VI HERE
Yamaha PF85, Formerly Kawai KG-1D
Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
terminaldegree #3000737 07/09/20 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
I
iLaw Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 660
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Ouch! There are a lot of 150cm sized grands made in China ....

.... and now the 155cm grand will probably have the cheaper landed cost with a higher retail price!

Larry.

Re: Probable change to Section 301 tariffs on Chinese p
iLaw #3000759 07/09/20 05:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,313
Interesting! Thanks for the update.

Did USTR determine a deadline for extension requests?



Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see
~Mark Twain

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Finger pedaling- Who uses this technique?
by Jethro - 08/03/20 01:48 PM
Need help with wiring digital piano
by makentoxpiano - 08/03/20 11:06 AM
Casio GP-500 vs Roland LX706?
by LFYM - 08/03/20 11:03 AM
CN29/39 price range and not made in china
by robbah99 - 08/03/20 10:47 AM
Wrist Pain with Finger Exercises?
by BingoDingo - 08/03/20 12:41 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,685
Posts2,987,883
Members98,010
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4