Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Any info on the Yamaha CLP 775 and 785?

I ask myself the same question. I was hoping full wooden keys for the new CLP745.
Kawai CA49 has full wooden keys, while it is the cheapest CA.

Full wooden keys are not better. I’d say they are even worse than the hybrid plastic/wood construction which can be more consistent and reliable. At the end of the day they are all standard digital piano actions and only how they feel matters.

As long as the touch is not compromised and is not like in cheap keyboard, I would skip that. Grotrian makes their keys from: "The black keys are made of semi gloss artificial resin."

My concern was that plastic and wood have different density levels so they may respond differently. Personally, I've never felt it, but I wonder if anyone do.

Are you referring to the key tops, or the key sticks?

From http://www.grotrian.de/en/instruments/equipment/



As far as I'm aware, Grotrian's black key key sticks are still made of wood, however I cannot find a picture of a recent keyboard action to confirm this.

Kind regards,
James
x

Which is why AvantGrand instruments use hybrid plastic/wood const....wait, what?!

Well, as an employee of Kawai you certainly know how many years it took Kawai to overcome the prejudice against the ABS parts in their actions. The piano crowd is very conservative and would hardly accept any improvements to the piano actions and keyboards. I've never said N1X feels better than regular digital pianos because of the all-wooden keysticks, if that's what you imply. I've pointed out frequently that IMO the advantage of real acoustic piano actions is in the action (whippen, jack, double-repetition lever, etc.). I don't care about the material either. Kawai actions are mostly carbon/ABS, and the action in the N1X uses plastic jack and plastic double-repetition lever. I also believe if N1X used hybrid plastic/wood construction for the keysticks, that would have been better in the long term.

For what reason?
What do you define as "long term"?

James
x

Well, for instance on my DIY action (a very old one that has gone through an unknown conditions and usage) I had problems with some key-sticks being slightly wrapped and touching against each other. I had to adjust the so called "squaring" of the keys, so that I can eliminate the touching but that came at the cost of some gaps between keys widening, etc. Wood will change its shape with the time if not specially conditioned and dried (which is what they do only on very expensive grand pianos where they can afford waiting for the wood material to dry by itself for years before using it), depending on temperature and humidity changes. I can imagine how in certain parts of the world both the NV10 and the N1X can experience sluggish/stuck keys due to wood expansion with humidity. This is BTW not an uncommon problem with acoustic pianos. The problem with all-plastic keys is the density indeed, which is why a hybrid construction would have the best of both worlds. I don't want to sound as though I'm bashing on CA-series but I believe the usage of full-length all-wooden keysticks is mostly a marketing feature since to me they don't feel any different than the Kawai plastic actions (and I actually prefer the GH-actions more than the GF-1 and GF-2). That also applies to N1X because the marketing pitch is how they used a grand piano action and so people would expect all wooden keys I'm not in that crowd though. However I realize how much the prejudice against plastic materials would affect such an expensive instrument.

- Roland: no
- Korg: no
- Kurzweil: no
- Dexibell: no
- Gewa: no
- Blüthner: no
- Williams: no
- Medeli: no
- Dynatone: no
- Studiologic: no
- GeneralMusic: no
- Clavia/Nord: no
- Ringway: no
- Viscount: no
- Ketron: no
- Alesis: no
- M-Audio: no
- Artesia: no

- Kawai: yes
- Casio: yes

I assume Yamaha doesn’t use wooden black keys because they’re unreliable?

Do you believe that this is comparable to a new Japanese grand piano action?


It's not impossible, but I believe new acoustic piano keys are produced using treated/seasoned wood to prevent this. There may be a small amount of shrinking/swelling in extreme climates, but sticking keys are not a common issue on modern pianos. I'm not aware of any sticking key reports from AvantGrand or Novus customers, are you?


Well, you're obviously entitled to your opinion.

Kind regards,
James
x

I think Roland does this as well. I mean they have "hybrid" keyboard where on white keys there are 2 wood inserts. I thinks it's due to cost efficiency, you don't feel this material change as much on black keys as on white ones because of smaller volume of the key.

Well, it's all about quality. The lower tier acoustic pianos from Kawai and Yamaha are made in Indonesia if I'm not mistaken. Maybe they are still of high enough quality and seasoned properly, etc. However does that also apply to digital pianos with fully wooden keysticks? I doubt they season the wood for CA-series, or do they? We've seen how roughly cut the GF-keysticks are and even those in the N1X seem too roughly cut compared to a fine grand piano. There are certainly low prices and tight margins to be observed and so certain compromises are acceptable. I'm not saying wooden keys are sh1t They are good but I am pretty convinced a wooden/plastic hybrid is still better even though that may not be obvious. After all, my comment was about the supposed superiority of all wooden keys. This is what I question and even if I retract my comment about plastic/wooden hybrids being better, they are at least on par and one shouldn't expect that fully wooden keys have any objective advantage besides the appearance (and prestige).

I'm afraid I don't know, however I also do not see many reports of these wooden key sticks warping or sticking. I have an old MP8 at home that is almost 15 years old, and its keys are absolutely fine, despite Japan's extremely humid summers and bone-dry winters. I cannot guarantee that this will still be the case in 50 years time, however I'm hopeful that I will have upgraded to something else by this time...maybe a VPC10?

Kind regards,
James
x

OK, so this is a very elaborate and twisted way of confirming that VPC-line is not abandoned and since you dare mentioning it in a thread about a brand new announcement by the competition, we take it for granted that you want to tease about an imminent VPC-2

Did any of you pick up on the “transducers”? On the spec sheet Yamaha lists two transducers. I’m not certain if this existed on the 685.

Needless to say, I, like y’all, am underwhelmed. I was expecting at least some cosmetic changes. For example, new Rolands and Kawais (flagships) don’t have that ‘side line’ dividing the piano from the stand; they’re now one solid piece like real acoustic uprights. I’ve never been a fan of that ugly separation line.
Also, Yamaha didn’t even bother providing a ‘cover’ (a la CS10/11) for that hideous interface.

And finally, everything else seems like more marketing gibberish: Grand Expression this, GrandTurd that.


P.S.

I would like to apologize to anyone I advised on waiting for this thing; however, if there is a silver lining, that would be getting the 685 at a discount.

Be vicious, my friends, with them dealers. I can assure you that they still have way too many of these 685s hanging around, and it’s prime time to go pick yourself some low-hanging fruit.

Remember, they -definitely- need your money more than you need their 685 (as Mac would say).

Well, now that you come to mention it, Kawai America are teasing "something new" on their social media...

James
x

Interesting. I thought it was about ES9 but seeing the wooden panels it looks like either new CN-series or maybe a lower CA-series model.

Yes ... and the price has "improved", too.

And new words! New suffixes! Making the world better!
It seems they left off the tail fins, though.
And where's the chrome trim I've been pining for?

Oh well. Same old, same old. And Nixon is still Nixon, eh?