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FP-90 or RD-2000?
#2996415 06/28/20 02:28 PM
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Hello,

This is probably a rather weird question. I am in the market for a digital piano to serve as a companion to my acoustic upright. My primary motivations for getting the DP are the ability to use headphones while practicing (probably the most common use case in my case), the ability to use it as a MIDI controller and the possibility of having a bit more fun beyond the "plain" piano experience. Originally, I was leaning towards cabinet-styled DPs from Kawai (especially CA-48) due to their nice actions. But after comparing the CA-48 to high-end portable DPs from Roland, I didn't find the Roland pianos significantly worse both in touch and sound (although I am still a bit on the fence with the sound of modelled pianos). Since the portability would have been a great additions, I am considering giving Rolands a shot and at least trying them for an extended period at home.

Due to my emphasis on the action, I am deciding between FP-90 and RD-2000. I guess that I will never use the piano in a stage setting, nor I am a professional studio musician - so in this sense the RD-2000 feels a bit like an overkill (especially for the price difference of US$700). The main reason why I am considering RD-2000 is the tone selection - for some reason I liked some of the piano patches on RD-2000 more (especially the Deep Concert Grand). And obviously I believe that the insane selection of sounds can be quite fun just to play with.

However, just the tone selection alone does not seem to justify the price difference for me. What other features of RD-2000 makes it superior to FP-90 for the "home" DP use please? I have several questions that can probably make my decision easier (but I will be very happy for all the inputs):

- How does RD-2000 work as a MIDI controller? I guess that FP-90 can only be used to transmit notes that are being played and their respective velocities. Can the knobs and sliders and other controls of RD-2000 all be used in DAW and assigned to various functions there?
- Is it possible to adjust the "listening position"? I often feel like I am listening to the piano from the audience, instead from being just in front of the piano.
- How are the accompaniments in RD-2000 compared to FP-90? (I heard that in case of FP-90, some external application is needed and it is not maintained properly.)
- If I would go with FP-90, is there a possibility to obtain similar "fun" sounds via some VST plugins? And what are the consequences of doing so? (I guess that the latency is about to increase, but is it realistically an issue?

Sorry for the stupid questions, I am a real newbie in this area - and the only way I am able to judge the DPs now is based on their touch and sound :-) Thank you!

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2996421 06/28/20 02:58 PM
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Funny enough, somebody else was asking about accompaniments on the FP-90 the other day.

I'll send you a PM.

I've never played or read into the RD2000 too much, but I believe someone on here should be able to chip in.

You're not the first person to comment on their preference for one (or more) of the piano sounds on the RD2000 vs FP-90.


Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2996447 06/28/20 04:12 PM
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I own the RD2000 but I am not a power user, not even close. However, about the first question on how it works as a MIDI controller, nearly every single control in RD has a default MIDI CC assignment and it can be changed. And most can be set to control internal or external devices, including DAWs or VSTs.

Take a look at some videos on Roland Youtube support channel.



Examples for Mainstage but I suppose you may adapt to different VSTs/DAWs. FWIW I played (like in playground) with Pianoteq, assigning several controls to different parameters of Pteq.

Last edited by EVC2017; 06/28/20 04:20 PM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2996493 06/28/20 07:30 PM
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I would not recommend either model.


Playing professionally since 1975. Style: Straight-ahead jazz. Gear: Kawai ES110 | Mojo 61 | 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2996558 06/29/20 02:31 AM
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EVC2017: Thank you! The setup seems to be somewhat tricky at the first glance, but I guess that it just needs a bit of getting used to.

rintincop: Could you please elaborate about it more?

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2996563 06/29/20 03:29 AM
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If you search a powerful MIDI Controller Keyboard, the RD 2000 is the right choice.

If you wanna a piano for piano playing, you will find here many users with kawai know how. They know many reasons why kawai is the better choice.

I use the the RD 2000 in a music studio setup with a lots of keyboards and DAW. Sound is no reason for a special keyboard today,
because all sounds are available in the internet.


only you know which piano is the best 4 u
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
klausi6 #2996573 06/29/20 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by klausi6
If you search a powerful MIDI Controller Keyboard, the RD 2000 is the right choice.

If you wanna a piano for piano playing, you will find here many users with kawai know how. They know many reasons why kawai is the better choice.

I use the the RD 2000 in a music studio setup with a lots of keyboards and DAW. Sound is no reason for a special keyboard today,
because all sounds are available in the internet.

Can you post some of those sounds that you're talking about? I don't think a good sound library exists for RD-2000.

For Kronos there are many. For Montage there are some and for RD-2000 there is nothing other than a bunch of expansion packs that Rolands provides them. I might be wrong though.

What aspect of RD-2000 suites the studio usage other than MIDI functionality?


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
klausi6 #2996581 06/29/20 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by klausi6
If you wanna a piano for piano playing, you will find here many users with kawai know how. They know many reasons why kawai is the better choice.

Kawai isn't a better choice if you are talking about the action. Many people dislike the Roland sounds.

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
johnstaf #2996615 06/29/20 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Kawai isn't a better choice if you are talking about the action.

thumb


only you know which piano is the best 4 u
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
Abdol #2996860 06/29/20 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by klausi6
If you search a powerful MIDI Controller Keyboard, the RD 2000 is the right choice.

If you wanna a piano for piano playing, you will find here many users with kawai know how. They know many reasons why kawai is the better choice.

I use the the RD 2000 in a music studio setup with a lots of keyboards and DAW. Sound is no reason for a special keyboard today,
because all sounds are available in the internet.

Can you post some of those sounds that you're talking about? I don't think a good sound library exists for RD-2000.

The built-in library is fine for the thousands of people that use the piano professionally. A lot of professionals love the V-Piano. Everyone has different tastes. If it was really as bad as people here and other places like to say then it wouldn't be selling as well as it has

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
Kougeru #2996958 06/30/20 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kougeru
The built-in library is fine for the thousands of people that use the piano professionally. A lot of professionals love the V-Piano. Everyone has different tastes. If it was really as bad as people here and other places like to say then it wouldn't be selling as well as it has

I've yet to find a digital piano that only has sounds I like. The manufacturers give people a lot of choice but you can always find fault with any of them if you go looking for it.

When I played an acoustic, after a few hours I didn't like it anymore and would have to wait about half an hour before I could listen to it again. I've even heard a Steinway I didn't particularly like.

Perhaps people who don't like particular libraries, (for no unspecified reason) would like to develop their own?

After all, how many people does that add up to?

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
Kougeru #2997056 06/30/20 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kougeru
[quote=Abdol]

The built-in library is fine for the thousands of people that use the piano professionally. A lot of professionals love the V-Piano. Everyone has different tastes. If it was really as bad as people here and other places like to say then it wouldn't be selling as well as it has

I completely disagree. I have never heard a half-decent V-Piano sound.

Here is one recent example:



With all due respect, it sounds horrible. I have audited it in a friend studio and it's the same thing. I think those professionals should spend their money wisely.

"Studio use" which is mentioned here is different from thousand and millions of people. I can't imagine and I have not heard anyone using the piano sounds of RD-2000 or V-Piano in the studio.

In the category of Stage pianos, very few that can be partially used in the studio. The majority of them are no match for VSTs.

May be for playing drafts and parts that sits under other instruments.

Last edited by Abdol; 06/30/20 12:08 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
johnstaf #2997178 06/30/20 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by klausi6
If you wanna a piano for piano playing, you will find here many users with kawai know how. They know many reasons why kawai is the better choice.

Kawai isn't a better choice if you are talking about the action. Many people dislike the Roland sounds.
Better or worse choice for whom? For either brand DP, there are very experienced pianists on PW with a preference for the brand.

I would recommend the FP-90 over the RD-2000 if what you want is a piano to play with headphones as an acoustic piano substitute, but the RD-2000 if you want a large library of Roland sounds.


My chronological list of the top 20 composers: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Wagner, Verdi, Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Debussy, Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich.
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
Sweelinck #2997224 06/30/20 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Better or worse choice for whom? For either brand DP, there are very experienced pianists on PW with a preference for the brand.

For me. I own both.

Last edited by johnstaf; 06/30/20 07:42 PM.
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
Abdol #2997612 07/01/20 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by klausi6
If you wanna a piano for piano playing, you will find here many users with kawai know how. They know many reasons why kawai is the better choice.

I use the the RD 2000 in a music studio setup with a lots of keyboards and DAW. Sound is no reason for a special keyboard today,
because all sounds are available in the internet.
Thanks a lot! I am actually still a bit undecided between Roland and Kawai. Personally, I might prefer Kawai's Grand Feel actions to PHA-50, and probably even the SK-EX sound to the modelling of Roland. (I actually went to a music shop recently to compare Roland LX705 and Kawai CA58, and the CA58 felt better to me.) My main issues with Kawais are:
- The lack of portability (OK, there is MP11SE but it's impossible to find it somewhere to try)
- The delivery times (I have been told that CA-59 is expected to arrive no earlier than end of August. Only higher end models are in stock here which are quite expensive as a companion to an acoustic piano, or older models that have been however used extensively in the showroom.)
- Limited functionality in their CA lineup (at least to the best of my knowledge)

As for the sounds of RD-2000: Well, I am quite inexperienced in the studio setups. I have used DAW, but I have never had a keyboard to attach to it :-) I feel like for me (as an inexperienced user) more built-in sounds means "more fun with less hassle". (But I would like to get into it - that's one of the reasons why I would like to get a DP :-)) Also, how is the latency with external sound systems? (I have read somewhere that the "zero" latency of using sounds of RD-2000 directly is quite nice.)

Originally Posted by Abdol
I completely disagree. I have never heard a half-decent V-Piano sound.
Thanks a lot for the video! Are the sounds of V-Piano the same as the sounds in RD-2000? I am asking for this because from the demo videos of RD-2000 (and also my experience when I was trying the RD-2000), the piano sound seemed to be much more realistic. (e.g., I really like the 0002 Deep Concert Grand patch on RD-2000 - but I still have to try it next to Kawai's samples. I already found a place with both CA-79 and RD-2000 :-))

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2997626 07/01/20 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by karelh
Originally Posted by Abdol
I completely disagree. I have never heard a half-decent V-Piano sound.
Thanks a lot for the video! Are the sounds of V-Piano the same as the sounds in RD-2000? I am asking for this because from the demo videos of RD-2000 (and also my experience when I was trying the RD-2000), the piano sound seemed to be much more realistic. (e.g., I really like the 0002 Deep Concert Grand patch on RD-2000 - but I still have to try it next to Kawai's samples. I already found a place with both CA-79 and RD-2000 :-))

Hi, take Abdol's opinions with a LOT of grains of salt. In a nutshell he thinks Kawai rule and he owns the absolute truth and hold the key to the answer to the life, the universe and everything (42); everyone else's opinions and other manufacturers' DPs suck. If you stay around time enough, you will know what I mean. You've been warned.

About sounds on RD-2000, really the demos are outstanding overall but live the sounds are not that great IMO and may require some (or much) work to sound good, depending on your taste an requirements. The demos do indicate that it is possible to get good sounds from it, though for those that do not like modelled pianos it will never really work.

There are some posts in this forum, Youtube, Facebook RD-2000 group etc. with tips to make RD-2000 sounding better. I personally like some of the SN pianos better but I intend taking some time in the next couple of weeks to explore the sounds of mine.

Last edited by EVC2017; 07/01/20 04:10 PM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2997675 07/01/20 08:19 PM
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I agree with EVC2017. I'll add that if you want to hear some good RD-2000 Yohan Kim has a lot of videos where he used it, as does marasy8, on youtube. Both seem to have switched to the Fantom 8, but that also uses V-Piano so it doesn't sound much different (though I think iit does sound better than the RD-2000 for some reason...so much more expensive tho)

Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2997746 07/02/20 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by karelh
Thanks a lot for the video! Are the sounds of V-Piano the same as the sounds in RD-2000? I am asking for this because from the demo videos of RD-2000 (and also my experience when I was trying the RD-2000), the piano sound seemed to be much more realistic. (e.g., I really like the 0002 Deep Concert Grand patch on RD-2000 - but I still have to try it next to Kawai's samples. I already found a place with both CA-79 and RD-2000 :-))

The guys here are correct. I admit that am opinionated for sure. But my opinion is not personal. It's based on the available facts. Roland's V-Piano is dead. I don't think it ever was a successful instrument of Roland. It never sounded good. The only positive side was the modeling capability but what's the point of it if it does not sound as good as samples?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2786521/1.html#:~:text=It%20sounds%20like%20the%20piano,a%20decade%2Dold%20technological%20offering.

It seems RD-2000 has some or majority of the V-Piano in it. Ask the folks who own it. But the general consensus even here at this forum is that Roland SN or V-Piano sound synthetic. You appreciate the physical modeling hardware, then go for it, just like Pianoteq. But it will not sound as pleasing as sample-based emulations.

The last update for V-Piano goes back to 2013.

*** Footnote: Kawai rules for sure. Not because it has the best of everything but it has good set of everything. Sound is great (not the best), action is great (almost the best), price is great (not the best but great).

If you compare it with the competitors, something like ES8 or MP series easily can compete with the latest products from other companies and these are not new keyboards!

Last edited by Abdol; 07/02/20 03:59 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2997808 07/02/20 10:30 AM
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I have an RD 2000....

Regarding the unit in general, it is a tour de force of technology, features, and sounds. Its audio over USB makes hooking up to a computer and doing just about anything you want is extremely valuable. Plug in a USB stick and you can immediately record your tune. MIDI control.... .... got it all. Regarding the Virtual Piano sounds... it has the engine and a 2nd engine for all its other historical sounds... something like 2000 sounds... or some huge number. If you like the older Roland piano sounds, it has them. And can download and install other Roland historical sounds.

Regarding the sound quality of the virtual piano sounds.... well first, you must have a high-quality, high-fidelity sound system (amp/speakers) to fully appreciate and understand the sounds from any piano regardless of the brand or tech. Otherwise, you will favor the piano that fits with the flaws of your playback.. you may be making a decision based on system synergy, and not the ultimate quality in the piano.

IMO, I really like the v-piano sounds... I did have to tweak them to get them the way I like. My biggest criticism of the v-piano sounds is they lack dynamics so you need to tweak it up a bit. Regarding realism.... well first, I never thought the latest offerings from Yamaha, Kawai, Korg etc... are real sounding. I had an open mind when I purchased the RD 2000 and found all are very good. None sound like a real piano to me. Now keep this in perspective.... what does a real piano sound like? I found most cheap acoustic pianos to sound "real" but not to my liking.... so we are comparing these digital to very high quality acoustics..... in some ways, not a fair fight. I find all these digitals to sound way better than a cheap acoustic.

RD-2000 realism.... To me, it sounds more "comfortable" than the other brands... very enjoyable to play..... highly sensitive and expressive. Nice. How does it compare to a VST? I purchased the VI Labs Ravenscroft, Italian, American, and German pianos. Regarding the I, A, and G pianos... they sound more real than the RD 2000 but for some reason, I prefer the RD-2000 V-pianos more. However the Ravenscroft is superior to the RD-2000 in most ways. It sounds richer and more real. One way it lacks from the RD-2000 V-Piano is immediacy.... when I switch back to the RD-2000 V-Piano, I immediately feel like I am hitting a string. Why? I dunno... maybe a latency thing... maybe you loose something with any recorded sample as when you record a sound through microphones etc. ... the recording process is very flawed when capturing realism from anything.... it just is a flawed system as amazing as it can be.

While I get some may not like the Roland V-Piano sounds... I don't understand the strong negative reaction some have. They are not at all bad to me and I play back through an expensive playback system. In short, there is a taste thing. Further... and this may seem a bit heretical, any sound out of these digitals are instruments unto themselves and can work wonderfully as expressive instruments.

I recommend you buy a high-quality set of headphones, and go audition them. Then, if you want to try out something new, buy a VST.

Peace
Bruce in Phillly

Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 07/02/20 10:33 AM.

Peace
Bruce in Philly
Re: FP-90 or RD-2000?
karelh #2997830 07/02/20 11:54 AM
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Hello,

had the RD-2000 and the FP-90. Then "Downgraded" to the FP-30. As a Pianist, I don't miss a thing!

The Keybed is on par.

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