2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
72 members (AndrewJCW, Bluthendorfer, anotherscott, bohemiatotal, Abdol, 16 invisible), 850 guests, and 555 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
#2995234 06/25/20 10:18 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Soojin Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
Hello esteemed Forum members,

As someone who love to practice at night, but share the house with other family members, the silent piano sounds like a perfect option.

What I'd like your opinions on are:

1) Are there any downsides to silent pianos vs. normal acoustic pianos (specifically for C2X)? Mechanically? Sound-wise? Longevity? Having grown up with acoustic pianos only, I feel some reservation against adding something digital to a beautiful acoustic piano, but I am open to be told that it's a purely unfounded knee-jerk reaction based on ignorance.

2) I am debating between a new C2X (approx. CDN$30K) and a 5-year old "wet" Japanese import Silent C2X (approx. CDN$24K). Is there anything special (other than the typical examination with a technician I should conduct on a used piano) I should look out because of the silent feature?

As an update, I think my two-plus year search is almost coming to an end. I found one particular C2X whose action and tone that I loved last week. I do have to return to play it again next week, though, as the overall sound was muddy (?) to the point I almost didn't need to use the sustain pedal. It felt like playing in a echo-y church, and I had hard time surfacing the melody in the bass in the midst of a notes-heavy passage in a romantic piece, so asked the dealer to move it away from the glass windows. (It was right by the windows, so that I was facing the windows when playing.) I have yet to try the 5-year old silent C2X, which is in another city, but doing research ahead of time.


Thank you for your company along this wonderful journey.

Last edited by Soojin; 06/25/20 10:28 PM.

Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995273 06/26/20 01:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
Many people would suggest you're better off with two pianos if space allows, an acoustic and an electric. It will be cheaper (assuming new pricing for all options) and you don't have to worry about any downsides of having an acoustic instrument which will last decades coupled with electronics which probably won't. Personally my next piano will be either a silent or Transacoustic because I want to layer the acoustic piano with other sounds.

The way the silent mechanism on the Yamaha is implemented is considered to have almost zero impact on the action, much less than other silent systems so I would not let that influence you.

Obviously if you did opt for a two piano solution your choice of grands is massively increased.

Enjoy your journey!

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
dhts #2995282 06/26/20 03:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
G
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by dhts
The way the silent mechanism on the Yamaha is implemented is considered to have almost zero impact on the action, much less than other silent systems so I would not let that influence you.

Best play that piano next to the same model without silent system and make your own judgement on that. I came to the opposite conclusion from dhts but that was on a different Yamaha model and age so things might not be the same.

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995312 06/26/20 06:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,189
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,189
dhts can you remind me of what a transacoustic is? How is it different from a silent piano or hybrid piano?


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995333 06/26/20 07:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
Transacoustic turns the soundboard into a speaker so you can hear the digital bit of the piano without headphones. It's an extra to a Yamaha silent piano, not available on all models. It means you can play and hear the acoustic piano with say a strings or choir layer, or indeed silence the acoustic piano and play a digital piano with a lower volume. Kawai have or had a similar technology ATX-f I think it was called though this is even less well promoted than Yamaha's Transacoustic products.

Could be argued you achieve something similar by attaching speakers to a silent piano, though in theory because it's the soundboard making the sound you get the added effect of real piano strings resonating in tune.

If money was no object I'd be sat playing one now !

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995352 06/26/20 08:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
...on uprights Kawai's take on Transacoustic is called Aures.

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995362 06/26/20 09:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,189
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,189
thanks for the explanation! I'm pretty sure I didn't know that (iow, I thought maybe I had "forgotten" what a transacoustic was, but actually I think I just never knew. whome

Anyway, cool technology!


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
gwing #2995373 06/26/20 09:27 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Soojin Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by gwing
Originally Posted by dhts
The way the silent mechanism on the Yamaha is implemented is considered to have almost zero impact on the action, much less than other silent systems so I would not let that influence you.

Best play that piano next to the same model without silent system and make your own judgement on that. I came to the opposite conclusion from dhts but that was on a different Yamaha model and age so things might not be the same.
[quote=gwing][quote=dhts]


Hmmm two different opinions. I won’t be able to play them next to each other, because they are in different cities. Maybe I will try to do that on a différèrent silent model at the Yamaha dealer in my town. But like any piano, like gwing said, I just have to like it, in the end, I guess... always a good principle to return to. Thanks.

Last edited by Soojin; 06/26/20 09:28 AM.

Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
dhts #2995375 06/26/20 09:35 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Soojin Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by dhts
Many people would suggest you're better off with two pianos if space allows, an acoustic and an electric. It will be cheaper (assuming new pricing for all options) and you don't have to worry about any downsides of having an acoustic instrument which will last decades coupled with electronics which probably won't. Personally my next piano will be either a silent or Transacoustic because I want to layer the acoustic piano with other sounds.

The way the silent mechanism on the Yamaha is implemented is considered to have almost zero impact on the action, much less than other silent systems so I would not let that influence you.

Obviously if you did opt for a two piano solution your choice of grands is massively increased.

Enjoy your journey!


Thanks dhts. I hadn’t thought of that downside of having an acoustic instrument saddled with electronics that won’t last as long. Surprisingly it is a downside for me. To have something that doesn’t work attached to the beautiful instrument forever makes me a bit sad. Piano is timeless but electronics are so the opposite!

As for the two piano solution, I already have a P120, so I already have that option. It’s only that I only use P120 when it’s absolutely necessary for me to practice for a deadline, as I don’t enjoy it as much on a real piano at all. I can’t wait to try the silent one to see how much of an improvement it would be. Thanks!


Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995391 06/26/20 10:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,189
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,189
When we returned to the US, I bought a digital (Yamaha Arius 160 IIRC) (that was my first piano after owning the U1 in Japan). Then we moved, and I came into possession of a very old and long-neglected Baldwin Hamilton. When people talk about how a digital can often be a better instrument than an acoustic piano that's not in good condition, this is pretty much what they're talking about.

I eventually got my Petrof upright, which was a much better piano than the Baldwin. But in either case, I always preferred the acoustic over the digital. I kept the digital right up until I got my grand, and at that point I decided to sell it because, since I never played it when the other option was an upright, I knew I'd never play it when the other option was the grand!

All of which is to say, I know what you mean, Soojin, about your P120!

I'll be interested to hear your impressions of the silent piano. smile


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995458 06/26/20 12:56 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,695
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,695
I can't comment on Yamaha silent vs non-silent, but I played a Kawai K-500 version of silent vs non-silent when I was shopping. I was able to try them right next to each other in the store, and the difference was noticeable but not objectionable. If I had not been able to try them next to each other I probably would have never been aware of the difference. Someone on the forum explained why the silent version is slightly different, it had something to do with how close the hammers can be adjusted to the strings as I recall. So it would be nice if you could find a store that had both on the floor so you can judge for yourself.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
ShiroKuro #2995647 06/26/20 08:41 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Soojin Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
ShiroKuro, that's a lovely story of pianos in your life. Yes, I will report back when I get to play the silent C2X!


Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
MarkL #2995651 06/26/20 08:51 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Soojin Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by MarkL
I can't comment on Yamaha silent vs non-silent, but I played a Kawai K-500 version of silent vs non-silent when I was shopping. I was able to try them right next to each other in the store, and the difference was noticeable but not objectionable. If I had not been able to try them next to each other I probably would have never been aware of the difference. Someone on the forum explained why the silent version is slightly different, it had something to do with how close the hammers can be adjusted to the strings as I recall. So it would be nice if you could find a store that had both on the floor so you can judge for yourself.

MarkL, Thank you for referring to a previous thread - I just revived it. smile (http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/2995650.html#Post2995650)

When you get a chance, would you please provide a bit more detail on how different they were to you? What did you notice? Thank you.


Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995710 06/27/20 02:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
Hi Soojin, I think the thread you've linked to is really about retrofit systems and there's a world of difference between the sophistication and impact they have versus what's relevant for your situation, that is a factory designed Yamaha Grand piano with integrated silent system. I stress factory designed, Yamaha and Grand, I say that because Yamaha's implementation in their uprights is not the same. I can't find the most authoritative post which describes the Yamaha system and there's lots of posts from people who are less informed so tread carefully but I'd suggest you read these threads..

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2788472/re-to-those-who-own-acoustics.html

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2500948/yamaha-cx-silent-feature.html

Hope that helps.

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995764 06/27/20 07:55 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,695
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,695
Originally Posted by Soojin
When you get a chance, would you please provide a bit more detail on how different they were to you? What did you notice? Thank you.
I noticed a difference when playing softly, I felt I had better control. Words fail me to give a very good description of the difference, or maybe I fail words. I encourage you to try them for yourself to make up your own mind.

The difference in touch alone would not have deterred me from buying a silent version. Other issues for me were the fact that electronics don't last as long as acoustic pianos, manufacturers don't maintain spare parts forever, the silent version added what seemed like a disproportionate cost, and it's difficult to get an electronics tech to come to the house if you can't fix it yourself. So it's likely at some point I would end up with the expensive digital portion of the piano not functioning. I also had experience using VSTs with my digital piano for years before I got an acoustic. The state of the art from software piano companies is years ahead of what you can get built into a silent piano from any manufacturer. So in the end I decided to keep my Yamaha digital and play it if I needed silent playing. As I recall the cost of the silent feature on the Kawai K-500 was a few thousand dollars. For that amount of money I could have purchased a really nice separate digital piano if I had really needed one.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2995775 06/27/20 08:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
The two pianos solution is what I decided on 10 years ago. I much, much, much prefer playing my acoustic than my digital, but my Casio has a couple of advantages no acoustic can duplicate. My Casio weighs only 26 pounds! I have a folding stand and a lightweight folding well padded bench. It’s a full 88 keys and fits in the back of my SUV. I could do gigs. I can use it as a full midi front end for sophisticated piano software. It won’t layer that over my acoustic playing like a Transacoustic but I could just do that with a mixer which I haven’t really had enough interest to try.

I don’t know what effect a silent system has on resale. I do know older Disklavier electronics and similar systems used to make pianos depreciate faster. So all in all, I think the two piano solution works best for me and that’s what I recommend. Besides I can set up my Casio for duets with my Estonia.

Best Wishes on whatever you decide! It’s all good.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
dhts #2996034 06/27/20 06:01 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
S
Soojin Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by dhts
Hi Soojin, I think the thread you've linked to is really about retrofit systems and there's a world of difference between the sophistication and impact they have versus what's relevant for your situation, that is a factory designed Yamaha Grand piano with integrated silent system. I stress factory designed, Yamaha and Grand, I say that because Yamaha's implementation in their uprights is not the same. I can't find the most authoritative post which describes the Yamaha system and there's lots of posts from people who are less informed so tread carefully but I'd suggest you read these threads..

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2788472/re-to-those-who-own-acoustics.html

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2500948/yamaha-cx-silent-feature.html

Hope that helps.

These links are golden. Thank you so much for taking the time to dig them up, dhts. I really appreciate it.


Public servant by day, pianist and choir conductor by night
Yamaha C2X (2020) and Yamaha P120 (2019)
Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
Soojin #2997715 07/01/20 11:10 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3
G
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3
I recently upgraded from an 11 year old GC1 to a brand new GC2 with the new silent system (SH2). If anything, I prefer the action on the new piano, and it felt almost identical to the non-silent version in the store. The headphones are a godsend, but don’t expect complete silence as the hammers still make quite a bit of noise (almost sounds like muted wall raps). Aside from the metronome and the headphones, it has a lot of features I don’t really care about.

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
MarkL #2997756 07/02/20 03:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
G
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by MarkL
Originally Posted by Soojin
When you get a chance, would you please provide a bit more detail on how different they were to you? What did you notice? Thank you.
The state of the art from software piano companies is years ahead of what you can get built into a silent piano from any manufacturer.

Here's a little story from when we bought our new Kawai a couple of months ago, as background my wife has no interest in sound quality or hifi or technology and as I no longer mess around with virtual instruments she is just used to the sound of our cheap Casio digital and our upright. As we were going around trying pianos I suddenly heard this hysterical laughter from her and calls of "come on over here and listen to this" as she had started playing one of the new pianos that was in semi-silent mode i.e it was acoustically silent but playing through its built in speakers. Quite simply the sound was like a bad toy, nowhere near the quality of even my years old £300 Casio entry level digital piano and frankly just a joke in today's terms. Through headphones it was not much better either.

Re: Yamaha Silent C2X vs C2X
gwing #2997924 07/02/20 02:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by gwing
Here's a little story from when we bought our new Kawai a couple of months ago, as background my wife has no interest in sound quality or hifi or technology and as I no longer mess around with virtual instruments she is just used to the sound of our cheap Casio digital and our upright. As we were going around trying pianos I suddenly heard this hysterical laughter from her and calls of "come on over here and listen to this" as she had started playing one of the new pianos that was in semi-silent mode i.e it was acoustically silent but playing through its built in speakers. Quite simply the sound was like a bad toy, nowhere near the quality of even my years old £300 Casio entry level digital piano and frankly just a joke in today's terms. Through headphones it was not much better either.

That doesn't sound right, fundementally both Kawai and Yamaha use comparable technology in their Aures and Transacoustic models to their top end electric pianos, so Binaural CFX samples for Yamaha and I think ATX3 on Kawai is the same engine as the NV10. If it was that bad something was wrong. What model was it ?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
KAWAI CA79 METRONOME
by Giovanni Zanini - 01/16/21 01:43 PM
DIY Acoustical Digital Piano - algorithm
by stemPianist - 01/16/21 01:04 PM
First post. Question about Baldwin model R
by Gregory Waits - 01/16/21 11:29 AM
Garritans CFX Sample Player ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 01/16/21 11:16 AM
The College Experience
by MinscAndBoo - 01/16/21 10:40 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,293
Posts3,047,341
Members100,078
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4