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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2993890 06/21/20 10:00 PM
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rafalb,
perhaps you misunderstood me.
I am not saying that it is absolutely not true what you were saying. Absolutely not true was what that dealer was telling you: "During discussion about this matter with the shop's dealer he confessed that this new series has that error, and he still believes that another update of firmware will eliminate problem"
The whole series does not have that error, and it hardly can be fixed by an update. Sure, some frequencies can be filtered out by an update, thus damaging the sound for those who have correctly working CA99s.
As to how many people reported this problem with CA99 - this thread is now 39 pages long.
I am really not going to read the whole thread again. But I remember that this problem was reported by several CA79 owners, while I was still waiting for my CA99 to arrive. And just before it arived, somebody reported the same thing about CA99. I remember thinking: why the heck I had to read this? And then, I sort of remember another owner of CA99 confirming this. Or perhaps not. Anyway, most of complains were about CA79 and I really thought that the problem was limited to CA79. Until that blow landed frown
Yes, there were some other issues with CA99 reported, but they were different ones: about some clicking sounds when pressing some black keys, or sounds when releasing some keys.
These were different matters. But 80% or 90% of the rattling complains were about CA79.
So when my CA99 arrived, I banged and banged the keys, mostly from C2 down to A0, with the master volume slider set to maximum. I also later switched on the bass boost and set the touch curve to the lightest - to get the most bang, most likely to cause this rattling.
Yes, and my wall equalizer was set to WALL1 - the brick wall. My CA99 is about 22 cm from a hard wall and this setting gives the deepest bass.
But there still was no rattling whatsoever. Just like in that posted sample of CA79.
The guy who posted the sample of CA79 used some fancy equipment. So there is no point to record anything for me with my phone. You could already see how badly my pictures look.
Just listen to that sample. So maybe my piano has somewhat deeper bass. Because it is CA99 or because microphones still lose some of it. But otherwise it is very similar, no rattling, no "white noise" - whatever it is.
That is why I asked you to listen to that sample. I began thinking that perhaps I don't hear what others do.
Again, if you buy CA99, the probability of such rattling sound is very low. My store sold 4 more CA99s before I got mine - they all were OK, no rattling - or so they told me. Actually, they did not check, but they told me that all the people who bought them were very happy with them.
And remember, most people do not post to forum that their piano is ok, usually post those who have problems. And only a couple of CA99 owners reported rattling problems. So maybe three, but I doubt it.
Still, if your store has only one and it rattles, you got a 100% probability to get a rattling one, if you buy from them...
What kind of store it is anyway - if it is an authorized Kawai dealership, they could open that CA99, tighten some screws and fix it. Why to have it standing there, rattling? Unless the rattling comes from inside of a loudspeaker itself and it is difficult to fix it.

Last edited by Parkher; 06/21/20 10:05 PM.
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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2993892 06/21/20 10:21 PM
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Ok, so among the reasons for that rattling sound, there is a possible another one:
some local resonances in the room. Whoever has a rattling CA79/CA99 perhaps should try moving it to a different location in the room or moving it temporarily to a different room.
If so, then yes, all of them rattle. But also none of them rattles.

And the other reasons I can think of: loose screws, a loose rib on the soundboard, loose something inside a loudspeaker or inside a transducer (or badly centered moving/stationary parts touching each other), or a major crack in the soundboard.
I think that the soundboard and its ribs could be checked by the owner without disassembling anything. You could run a demo song and try touching the ribs and the soundboard to see if the rattling changes. Such a crack capable of causing rattling would be visible anyway.

Last edited by Parkher; 06/21/20 10:23 PM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2993946 06/22/20 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Parkher
rafalb,
perhaps you misunderstood me.
I am not saying that it is absolutely not true what you were saying. Absolutely not true was what that dealer was telling you: "During discussion about this matter with the shop's dealer he confessed that this new series has that error, and he still believes that another update of firmware will eliminate problem"
The whole series does not have that error, and it hardly can be fixed by an update. Sure, some frequencies can be filtered out by an update, thus damaging the sound for those who have correctly working CA99s.
As to how many people reported this problem with CA99 - this thread is now 39 pages long.
I am really not going to read the whole thread again. But I remember that this problem was reported by several CA79 owners, while I was still waiting for my CA99 to arrive. And just before it arived, somebody reported the same thing about CA99. I remember thinking: why the heck I had to read this? And then, I sort of remember another owner of CA99 confirming this. Or perhaps not. Anyway, most of complains were about CA79 and I really thought that the problem was limited to CA79. Until that blow landed frown
Yes, there were some other issues with CA99 reported, but they were different ones: about some clicking sounds when pressing some black keys, or sounds when releasing some keys.
These were different matters. But 80% or 90% of the rattling complains were about CA79.
So when my CA99 arrived, I banged and banged the keys, mostly from C2 down to A0, with the master volume slider set to maximum. I also later switched on the bass boost and set the touch curve to the lightest - to get the most bang, most likely to cause this rattling.
Yes, and my wall equalizer was set to WALL1 - the brick wall. My CA99 is about 22 cm from a hard wall and this setting gives the deepest bass.
But there still was no rattling whatsoever. Just like in that posted sample of CA79.
The guy who posted the sample of CA79 used some fancy equipment. So there is no point to record anything for me with my phone. You could already see how badly my pictures look.
Just listen to that sample. So maybe my piano has somewhat deeper bass. Because it is CA99 or because microphones still lose some of it. But otherwise it is very similar, no rattling, no "white noise" - whatever it is.
That is why I asked you to listen to that sample. I began thinking that perhaps I don't hear what others do.
Again, if you buy CA99, the probability of such rattling sound is very low. My store sold 4 more CA99s before I got mine - they all were OK, no rattling - or so they told me. Actually, they did not check, but they told me that all the people who bought them were very happy with them.
And remember, most people do not post to forum that their piano is ok, usually post those who have problems. And only a couple of CA99 owners reported rattling problems. So maybe three, but I doubt it.
Still, if your store has only one and it rattles, you got a 100% probability to get a rattling one, if you buy from them...
What kind of store it is anyway - if it is an authorized Kawai dealership, they could open that CA99, tighten some screws and fix it. Why to have it standing there, rattling? Unless the rattling comes from inside of a loudspeaker itself and it is difficult to fix it.

Parkher thank you for your respond. I really believe that it is no systemic problem with CA79&99 but what I have now is: The sales man and the owner of the music store that says about the systemic issue, and there is also my experience of this issue and your opinion. I really have no reasons to not believe the sales man and the owner of the shop. I really appreciate that he told me his observation because as a seller he wants to sell as much of his products as possible so his opinion was very generous and fair. I don't understand why you can't make a video with your piano. I really don't expect an oscar quality picture. Just take the smartphone and record showing setting the volume to the maximum and play bass keys hard. No edit. You even don't have to create an account on vimeo or youtube. You can send the link to the video via wetransfer directly from your phone. It's 2 minutes, no more. For sure faster than writing long respond. No offense, I have no reasons to not believe what you are saying but as you know everybody can write anything online and until there is no video with sound it's not fully reliable. I promised that I will make such video and I will. It's important because if your CA99 is completely free from this disadvantage then it's signal for me that it is worth to find another store and look for the right one.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2993969 06/22/20 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Parkher
And the other reasons I can think of: loose screws, a loose rib on the soundboard, loose something inside a loudspeaker or inside a transducer (or badly centered moving/stationary parts touching each other), or a major crack in the soundboard.
I think that the soundboard and its ribs could be checked by the owner without disassembling anything. You could run a demo song and try touching the ribs and the soundboard to see if the rattling changes. Such a crack capable of causing rattling would be visible anyway.

I'm 90% sure it's loose parts since I heard the same problem in CA98.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2993986 06/22/20 07:54 AM
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Me too, I even heard the same problem in a CA58. If something would be loose, it is not likely to happen in all the different models I tried, or we are not talking about the same issue? The noise/hissing I am talking about is decreasing when I turn highs down and increasing when I turn them up. So I guess there is a general problem with the tweeters in the CA Series. I didnt hear it in the NV Series.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2993990 06/22/20 08:10 AM
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Sorry, rafalb, maybe somebody else will record CA99 for you. There are plenty of perfectly good CA99s around. I will not do it because it is not needed, and because I don't want somebody making claims that there is some rattle or "white noise" in my piano. I know that there is none, but it still would be very unpleasant and unhealthy to my nerves to read. Why risk it when I can avoid it.
Especially that I have other things to worry about.
I tried to connect a brand new V3 Sound Grand Piano XXL to CA99 - turns out, its usb port is not working. It is working via midi in, though.
Because I was keeping it without trying for quite a few days (probably weeks), it is probably too late to return.
Or perhaps I need to hurry.
And anyway, do I really need that usb port? Perhaps it is needed for firmware updates, though.
That box has no buttons and can be controlled only via midi. And CA99 is not able to do that at all. So another midi controller is needed (such as Lab4Music Sipario Advanced MIDI Router, or a software tool V3 Sound Control, or Miditool EX). It could be connected in parallel via that usb. Without it, it will have to be connected as a middle element of a chain.
So there is some advantage in having that usb port. Especially that I also have 3 other sound sources I want to connect to CA99, and there would be more possible ways to connect them all.
But I have no clue how to send it back or to replace it under warranty.
And I also cannot decide what classical guitar to buy.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2993993 06/22/20 08:20 AM
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CA 98 has exactly the same speakers, soundboard, tweeters like the NV5....

Once I had some rattling on my CA 58 and it was a loose screw of the stand, the screws that connect the keyboard to the stand, one of them was loose and rattling with certain notes

On the other note, on my brand new CA 79... I hear a lot of weird "clicking" sound inside the keyboard action. It doesn't affect the playing or anything, is this normal? Like is it just the mechanics of the action ?

Other than that I love my CA79 a lot, I hope it's normal that there are clicking sounds since the action is working?

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
lovelovemale #2994002 06/22/20 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
On the other note, on my brand new CA 79... I hear a lot of weird "clicking" sound inside the keyboard action. It doesn't affect the playing or anything, is this normal? Like is it just the mechanics of the action ?

Are your clicking sounds similar to those:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dBiWqt9SR4&feature=emb_logo

If so, don't worry, it can be easily fixed. The poster of this video had them fixed. How it was done is described somewhere in this thread. A Kawai's authorized guy came, removed all black keys, added some more of some white grease (already present in the keyboard), put the keys back in - and the clicking sound disappeared.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
lovelovemale #2994031 06/22/20 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
On the other note, on my brand new CA 79... I hear a lot of weird "clicking" sound inside the keyboard action. It doesn't affect the playing or anything, is this normal? Like is it just the mechanics of the action ?

I also have an issue with several clicking keys, but only on key release. It doesn't occur every time you hit a key, but it is never completely gone. It also differs from key to key. Some keys are free of any click noises. On others, it occurs occasionally, but there are several keys were the release-click-noise occurs nearly every second time you play them.

You can it see in action here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyaxmzgielmmr79/CA-79-clicks.mov

Unfortunately, Kawai currently tries to downplay it as "normal behaviour". If you ask me, it sucks like heck, especially with an instrument in this price range.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
thewueth #2994034 06/22/20 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by thewueth
I also have an issue with several clicking keys, but only on key release. It doesn't occur every time you hit a key, but it is never completely gone. It also differs from key to key. Some keys are free of any click noises. On others, it occurs occasionally, but there are several keys were the release-click-noise occurs nearly every second time you play them.

You can it see in action here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyaxmzgielmmr79/CA-79-clicks.mov

Unfortunately, Kawai currently tries to downplay it as "normal behaviour". If you ask me, it sucks like heck, especially with an instrument in this price range.

I have the same clicks! it only occurs when releasing a key, it's not always just sometimes. It doesn't affect the playing or velocity yet. But honestly it is weird a little bit... I paid 3600 Euros for my CA79 PE which is not little money, you just expect things to kind of be in really good condition at this price point.

Does it affect your playing?

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
thewueth #2994047 06/22/20 11:44 AM
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Hi guys,
Haven't been reading or posting on this thread for a while and just caught up with the last 5 pages today.
I am the almost 100% happy owner of a CA99 EP ...

I would like to come back to 3 points raised in recent discussions which for me remain without clear answer:

1- sustain pedal is very stiff on my CA99 too and even makes some noise (like the screw needs some oil) ... checked already the manual and made sure the thing in the middle is tight to the ground but the pedal is super stiff.

2- plastic-noise from the keys: didn't have any issue with my CA99 at the begining and i can now experience some light plastic noises with some keys and not always. I play mostly with headphones (noise cancelling) so did not notice the noise at first, but having played without headphones recently, i could notice them. Previous videos of this noise posted are very clear and describe it clearly. Sometimes it is similar to my nails hitting the keys but after repeating the key it is clearly a plastic noise. Any fix identified yet for this ?

3- Dull sound when the keys are released. Only happens for the lowest 3-4 keys (i don't use them often) but i am just afraid that with time it gains the other parts of the keyboard. With my P120 from Yamaha, i got the first keys issues after 10 years, not after 1 month !!!

As for the "popular" rattle/white speaker noise: not experiencing it on my CA99 - listened to all your recordings, still cannot hear anything (???)

Many thanks in advance for the answers.

Last edited by ag_jazz_piano; 06/22/20 11:54 AM.

Owner of Kawai CA99 EP (May 2020)
Yamaha P-120S (15y ago)
Young Chang E118 accoustic (30y ago ...)
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Ryner #2994050 06/22/20 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryner
Me too, I even heard the same problem in a CA58. If something would be loose, it is not likely to happen in all the different models I tried, or we are not talking about the same issue? The noise/hissing I am talking about is decreasing when I turn highs down and increasing when I turn them up. So I guess there is a general problem with the tweeters in the CA Series. I didnt hear it in the NV Series.

I remember I posted some of my opinions in this thread.
This should be the result of the distortion of tweeters at some resonant frequency in audio signal. This problem also occurred on C6~G6 when my CA98 was not using the on-board sound source, such as VSL D274 or PTQ Bechstein in some presets or configurations by myself. All I can do is adjust some certain frequencies with EQ note by note.
Kawai upgraded the built-in sound engine on CA97/99 compared to CA98/NV5, it may be the reason for it.
At the same time, in my tests, it's not just on CA98 tweeters, but more than half of the seven or eight pairs of different desktop speakers I tested have the similar problem with above VSTs. They used horn, soft dome or ribbon tweeters.
I think the key factors of this kind of distortions are the pulsed audio signal of DP undering high volume or velocity, higher sensitivity of the speaker(eg over 90db) and the quality of tweeter itself. Normally, playing back a piece of normal piano music on these speakers is fine, but playing it in real time on DP is not.


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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
lovelovemale #2994071 06/22/20 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
Does it affect your playing?

Honestly spoken, it distracts me in a way that I'm not willing to accept. It is a pity as the CA 79 is an excellent instrument with a fantastic sound and a great action.

I neither know if the release click noise is "fixable" nor if it's "normal". But if it's fixable, Kawai should fix it, and if it's not fixable (aka "that's normal"), the CA 79 has to leave.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2994099 06/22/20 02:37 PM
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Hi!

First of all, sorry if my english seems weird.

I bought a CA79 (SB) last week after trying several pianos in a shop. I must say that the look / action / keyboard feeling are just fanstastic, along with the sound.
I'm not a pro at all, but this EP is outstanding (for me).

It should be delivered this week, I can't wait !

I read most of the messages in this thread, and started to be (a little bit) afraid by the several issues that people reported.

I just saw a new video on Youtube, it's very recent (not from me) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SV5PgFySII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqioRS7wOK8

That sound is quite scarry...!!!

In the documentation, they are recommending not to put the piano close to other electrical devices.
Is it possible this sound is actually caused by interferences (eg. microwaves, WiFi, electric wires - like in the walls, other electric devices) ?


Concerning the clicking noise issue, my current piano (Korg) (don't judge) has this behaviour on a few notes.
I honnestly don't pay much attention on it, as the action and operation are not impacted at all.
But I understand that people are disappointed, especially in this price range.

So finger crossed... I hope mine will be okay smile

Last edited by simonoche; 06/22/20 02:38 PM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
simonoche #2994127 06/22/20 03:38 PM
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@ Simonoche
Never saw these 2 videos before but this must be an exception (isolated problem). I can reassure you my CA99 makes absolutely no noise when turned on.
To reassure you, below a few videos i recorded with my CA99 !
Enjoy.







Owner of Kawai CA99 EP (May 2020)
Yamaha P-120S (15y ago)
Young Chang E118 accoustic (30y ago ...)
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
ag_jazz_piano #2994188 06/22/20 07:05 PM
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Thanks @ag_jazz_piano
Nice videos!

I hope everything’s gonna be okay , just like you smile

What do you think about your CA99 so far?
What are the features you like the most?
What do you think about the action and the rendering ?

I can’t wait to play on my CA79, and discover all the features. Really excited!!

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2994262 06/23/20 04:45 AM
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Hi everyone ! I hope you guys are good. I have a ca99 and I'm happy with my DP but I don't find the best settings to have a beautiful "acoustic, authentic" piano sound. I would like to hear your settings (ca79 and ca99 owners) in term of instrument /tone / virtual technician/ but I don't want to use VST because I want to use the wav USB recording function.
It will be great to share our favorite settings and try them each other smile

My reference sound is the one in Animenz or Theishter videos, I know they have a grand Steinway/Yamaha and I dont but I think and hope it's possible to find settings to imitate a little bit the sound of a real acoustic grand piano, even a good sound of an upright, (I have a Ronish upright too)
Thank you very much for your answers, kind regards
See you soon.

Example of Animenz video : https://youtu.be/B3CGMmF3OT0
Or Theishter video : https://youtu.be/rwvF1Lgh61w

Last edited by Sodari; 06/23/20 04:52 AM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Sodari #2994284 06/23/20 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Sodari
but I don't want to use VST because I want to use the wav USB recording function.
You can record every VST as a WAV file on your disk drive or USB drive. For instance, Garritan CFX is a standalone app that has a record button that does exactly what a digital piano saving on a USB drive would do. If that's your only concern, then it's not a real issue.


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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
CyberGene #2994293 06/23/20 08:25 AM
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Thanks for your answer but the fact is I really don't want to spend time with another software and vst on computer or connect my computer to my piano. I just would like to find the best settings and apply directly on my piano, and save it directly on usb, synchronize it with the video I took with my phone and share it on my youtube channel.

I have to find the simple solution to fix this "sound issue" without download any vst because I truly think the ca99 is sufficient in itself.
Thank you for your answers and to sharing your best settings smile

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2994297 06/23/20 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by simonoche
Thanks @ag_jazz_piano
Nice videos!

I hope everything’s gonna be okay , just like you smile

What do you think about your CA99 so far?
What are the features you like the most?
What do you think about the action and the rendering ?

I can’t wait to play on my CA79, and discover all the features. Really excited!!

hi everybody (first post here) and salut Simonoche, if you live in France can I ask you where you ordered your CA79 ?


actually ? Studiologic VMK188+ restored with keyscape or pianoteq
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