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Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Razorbill #2988501 06/06/20 03:20 PM
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Sorry for ambiguity, it simply meant how many dB down. Like, ribbon 24 means ribbon mic at -24dB in the mix page

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988503 06/06/20 03:21 PM
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Man I love that you listen to the feedback smile If I find more I'll post it!

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #2988505 06/06/20 03:24 PM
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The post nocturne probably makes trouble at the final section with the very long runs? Or is it no so much a problem.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Erard #2988506 06/06/20 03:27 PM
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Funny, exactly at that place I also stumbled. But I can tell you that I bought a piano digitally recently and could return it very easily with help of a friendly person from vsl. You just delete the license, write an eMail and bascially you should get an answer that you get your money back within a month. It was a lot more uncomplicated that I thought.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988513 06/06/20 03:44 PM
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I also recently returned a VSL piano within the return window, got my refund in about 10 days, it was very straight forward.


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Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Erard #2988514 06/06/20 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Erard
I was going to buy this new piano from VSL today, full version.
I already have the CFX, the D and the Bluetner and I don't know if the BI is different enough to be a worthwhile addition to the library. Since, as stated here and on the VSL site, it's possible to return the piano within 14 days I was going to buy with the safety net of returning the piano of that is the case.
Before hitting the buy button though, I had a look at the Right of Withdrawal contract, which at one point states:

In the case of a contract for the supply of download products (digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium) I expressly agree that Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH starts to execute this contract before the expiration of the withdrawal period and accept the termination of my right of withdrawal.

Looks like it's not possible to exercise the right of withdrawal in the case of a digital download. So now I'm confused.
Either I don't understand the English, which is definitely possible, or I have to renounce to the right of withdrawal if I want to buy the piano online.

What am I missing?

I have used the right of withdrawal just a couple of weeks ago when I bought the D-274 so I know it works smile But I agree that it does look a little confusing when reading the comtract.... i never did that but just went for the reassunce i got from the website.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Gamma1734 #2988515 06/06/20 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gamma1734
Man I love that you listen to the feedback smile If I find more I'll post it!

Totally agree with you that it's super cool that Paul hangs out on this forum and listen to the feedback and will fix it. I great reassurance for me that am about to take the plunge for the full version. Man I really should not since i hardly know how to even play the piano haha

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Gamma1734 #2988522 06/06/20 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gamma1734
The post nocturne probably makes trouble at the final section with the very long runs? Or is it no so much a problem.

I didn't have a problem there. The Mendelssohn was the one that caused the most problems.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
johnstaf #2988524 06/06/20 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Nice playing Kevin.
I wonder if an external drive would work better?

The fastest port on the old laptop is FireWire 800. After I duplicated the internal drive, and before I swapped in the new drive I booted from the new drive plugged into the external port, it was considerably slower. I know internal is still faster.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
navindra #2988527 06/06/20 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by navindra
Have you considered recording the MIDI first with only 1 or 2 mics, and the re-rendering the same MIDI offline with all the 11 mics? That way your Mac doesn't have to do the heavy lifting in realtime and should be able to cope.

I don't think I'd ever feel the need for all mikes. But I have been playing with 2 or 3 mikes and adding in another couple when replaying the midi from my keyboard after bumping up the latency.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #2988564 06/06/20 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by navindra
Have you considered recording the MIDI first with only 1 or 2 mics, and the re-rendering the same MIDI offline with all the 11 mics? That way your Mac doesn't have to do the heavy lifting in realtime and should be able to cope.

I don't think I'd ever feel the need for all mikes. But I have been playing with 2 or 3 mikes and adding in another couple when replaying the midi from my keyboard after bumping up the latency.
Well, in my mode of thinking, factors such as latency only matter for realtime performance. It makes perfect sense that your Mac would struggle when the goal is a realtime performance with multiple mics involved.

However, you have already recorded the MIDI using a minimal number of mics. There should be a "render" or "production" mode where you can make a perfect rendering of your track. Latency is completely irrelevant in this mode -- it might as well be set in terms of minutes or hours. You don't need realtime -- you need perfection for production purposes. Crackles are unacceptable for production.

Perhaps if you run the VST in another DAW it would support this, but as a temporary workaround, you could instead export different mic renderings to separate tracks with your existing software and then mix them to your satisfaction in something like GarageBand or Logic Pro X.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988573 06/06/20 06:55 PM
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“ Crackles are unacceptable for production.”. Yes but it should not happens whatever the number of mics. In production, the WAV/MP3 is rendered offline and the DAW waits for the VST to compute their samples. If a VST needs 2s to compute 1s of audio, the DAW will simply slow down the computation of the WAV file.

Then, if there are some crackles during the mixing phase (setting the level of each mic), it doesn’t matter a lot : we won’t hear them in the final rendering.

Then it could be a good idea to record oneself with few mics avoiding crackles, and adding some other in the production.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 06/06/20 06:55 PM.

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Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988586 06/06/20 07:28 PM
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It's annoying that some people can get good realtime performance while others can't.

It's handy to load a few and jump between them without having to unload and reload, especially in the beginning.

Last edited by johnstaf; 06/06/20 07:37 PM.
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988590 06/06/20 07:37 PM
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Many factors may limit the realtime performance :

- CPU rating... with too many mics or a greedy VST (I know Bechstein Digital Grand in this category). I don’t know other greedy VST, but I haven’t a full VSL Synchron to test
- faulty driver : some driver computations are not preempted by any application. If they spend too much time, some dropouts happens,
- memory management : if a page is swapped out, it won’t be available fast enough : on my PC, 8GB is quite limited and I have to restart some VST if they are launched for too much time or after opening some application (Firefox...)


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988604 06/06/20 09:55 PM
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I love this Bösendorfer Imperial. It's the only warm, natural sounding grand piano in the modern Synchron library. I've been tweaking my settings a little bit. Here is my arrangement of John Thurber's "A Clean Heart." I'm running five mics. The end of the video will show screenshots with my settings.



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Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #2988629 06/07/20 04:11 AM
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I'm a bit of a numpty, I formatted my new drive as HFS+ Journaled. I'm currently cloning it to an external drive so I can reformat it to APFS. I'm not convinced this will fix the performance issue but I have to try.

Last night I did my practise on Vienna Imperial and realised it is my favourite sound. As John mentioned before it is a bit raucous and can be a little hard to control but there is no denying the warmth depth and beauty of the sound. You can tell Bösendorfer Imperial is part of the same family, but is a different beast and I very much enjoy it and it is easier to work with than VI. However I think VI is my first true VST love.

I will be keeping Bösendorfer Imperial and will work around the performance issues. I've a 2019 13" MBP with a 1TB SSD and 16GB Ram. I use it intermittently for working. I will try it out running from an external drive after I get through my numptiness first.

Last edited by KevinM; 06/07/20 04:13 AM.
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #2988633 06/07/20 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
I'm a bit of a numpty, I formatted my new drive as HFS+ Journaled. I'm currently cloning it to an external drive so I can reformat it to APFS. I'm not convinced this will fix the performance issue but I have to try.

Last night I did my practise on Vienna Imperial and realised it is my favourite sound. As John mentioned before it is a bit raucous and can be a little hard to control but there is no denying the warmth depth and beauty of the sound. You can tell Bösendorfer Imperial is part of the same family, but is a different beast and I very much enjoy it and it is easier to work with than VI. However I think VI is my first true VST love.

I will be keeping Bösendorfer Imperial and will work around the performance issues. I've a 2019 13" MBP with a 1TB SSD and 16GB Ram. I use it intermittently for working. I will try it out running from an external drive after I get through my numptiness first.

Hi Kevin. Are you used to the fact that VI doesn’t support half pedaling? Do you have to adjust your pedaling for this particular VST?

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Harpuia #2988635 06/07/20 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
Hi Kevin. Are you used to the fact that VI doesn’t support half pedaling? Do you have to adjust your pedaling for this particular VST?

I seem to be able to work with it. I'm guessing at some point there will be a piece of music where it will stand out as a problem. When I hit that I'll probably just use Bösendorfer Imperial.

Vienna Imperial has nice una-corda samples.

The Bösendorfer implementation of una-corda sounds better to my ears than Concert D's does but it is still lacking.

If I need both decent una-corda and half pedalling for a piece I'll fall back to ACD.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #2988761 06/07/20 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by Harpuia
Hi Kevin. Are you used to the fact that VI doesn’t support half pedaling? Do you have to adjust your pedaling for this particular VST?

I seem to be able to work with it. I'm guessing at some point there will be a piece of music where it will stand out as a problem. When I hit that I'll probably just use Bösendorfer Imperial.

Vienna Imperial has nice una-corda samples.

The Bösendorfer implementation of una-corda sounds better to my ears than Concert D's does but it is still lacking.

If I need both decent una-corda and half pedalling for a piece I'll fall back to ACD.

Wow does that mean that VI has dedicated una corda sampling?

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Harpuia #2988772 06/07/20 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
Wow does that mean that VI has dedicated una corda sampling?
Certainly it sounds like it to my ears. From the features section on the Vienna Imperial web page it has this "Recordings of sustain pedal up/down and soft pedal (una corda) down"

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