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Which Petrofs should be in this list?
#2988423 06/06/20 11:54 AM
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On Pianobuyer, Petrof is in their "distinguished" performance grade pianos list:

Estonia
Shigeru Kawai
Mason & Hamlin
Petrof
Schimmel (Konzert)
Seiler (Germany)
Yamaha (CF)

That's pretty good company. Anybody know if this is supposed to include older models like the Petrof III? Or does it only apply to the newer, higher end Petrof models like the Storm? Or is it only the Ant. Petrofs?

Thanks.


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988433 06/06/20 12:18 PM
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It applies to the newer models (Storm etc).

According to my Piano Buyer 2008-2009 Supplement, Petrof was rated in group 2C in the High-Performance groupings, with the best quality groups staring with 1A, 1B, 1C, then 2A.... with the least quality being 4D. Though, the rating group descriptions have changed since 2008, a Petrof III would not be placed in the 'Distinguished" group.

Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988437 06/06/20 12:27 PM
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If you look at older editions of Larry Fine's "The Piano Book" you'll see his ratings from when models like the III were made. Interestingly, before "The Piano Buyer" his ratings and groupings were graded on:
Performance, Confidence, QC, Warranty, Information - each category up to 5 stars.

I have a copy of his Forth Edition from 2002 and recommend it. Per your question, Petrof grands back then were rated among "High-performance pianos" with 4.5 stars. Among that category that included Schimmel (prior to Konzert series), Seiler, Yamaha (S-series), the very first S. Kawai's, Schimmel, Estonia. At the time, Mason was in the highest group with 5 stars for Performance.

Larry Fine did make distinctions between Petrof verticals with Renner vs. Detoa actions because by 2002, all of the Petrof grands did have Renner, but in the 1990's, that could still depend on the model.

I won't speak for Larry, but as a general assessment, I would say that a Petrof model III, if compared to the closest sized grands from those other makers today, would be at the bottom of the list. Certainly, Estonia, Schimmel Konzert, S. Kawai, and Seiler have improved their small grands in that time. Yamaha's S or CF do not have any sub-6' grands, and Mason has had ups and downs, and I look forward to learning more about their latest models in development.

All of these are and still were rated above the "Better quality consumer-grade pianos" that included Yamaha C-series, Kawai RX series, and manu other familiar brands.


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988441 06/06/20 12:47 PM
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The above assessments and information are correct.


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988445 06/06/20 01:10 PM
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Thanks everyone. So I'm considering a 2002 Petrof III for $10,000, single owner. However, I'm wondering if it's worth a $300 plane ride to go try it. With delivery, total price would be about $11,500. Even with delivery, that's much less than I'm seeing RX3s and C3s going for in that vintage.

Serial no. is 558217.

What do you think?

Last edited by Emery Wang; 06/06/20 01:11 PM.

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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988447 06/06/20 01:14 PM
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Is it possible for you to get an independent tech where the instrument is, have that person go and inspect it while you are there "virtually" on the phone or Zoom or something? You could get the tech's assessment and then decide if it's worth it for you to make the trip. (And you wouldn't need the tech to be there a second time when you go yourself).


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988451 06/06/20 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Thanks everyone. So I'm considering a 2002 Petrof III for $10,000, single owner. However, I'm wondering if it's worth a $300 plane ride to go try it. With delivery, total price would be about $11,500. Even with delivery, that's much less than I'm seeing RX3s and C3s going for in that vintage.

Serial no. is 558217.

What do you think?

A 2002 Petrof might have a Detoa action, but it should have a Renner action. I know in 1999 they had not yet switched over, but I frankly cannot remember what year that took place. For a minute you could order either. The right skill set in a technician can make either perform beautifully, but they require different work, particularly to the hammers.

Just for fun, here is a Petrof III from 1993 that came in sounding like a bag of cats. We worked with the piano and got a nice result: https://youtu.be/OnR_RFuXEKY

Good luck Emery!


Rich Galassini
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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988455 06/06/20 01:37 PM
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Thanks Rich. The piano sounds very nice. Other than hammer voicing and action regulation, did you have to do other modifications to the piano? If it's just a matter of optimizing the action and hammers, it may be something I can handle.


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988458 06/06/20 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Thanks everyone. So I'm considering a 2002 Petrof III for $10,000, single owner. However, I'm wondering if it's worth a $300 plane ride to go try it. With delivery, total price would be about $11,500. Even with delivery, that's much less than I'm seeing RX3s and C3s going for in that vintage.

Serial no. is 558217.

What do you think?

Perhaps, it would be advisable to get in touch with Petrof Company to check the serial number, for it does not seem to correspond to a 2002 piano, but rather from one made in the 90's. Would the seller have indicated the year of first acquisition, perhaps, instead of year of manufacture?

Anyway, here goes a link for a commercial ad of a similar Petrof III from 2001 with a much higher serial number (already sold, so it is only a reference). It also gives an aproximate description of some specs of this model and a market evaluation:

https://livingpianos.com/pianos/petrof-grand-piano-model-iii-584-276/

At last, before commiting to it, just do like everybody here says: tech assessment of actual condition and of course, falling in love with the tone and touch. Nothing less. The price looks tempting, though... too good to be true or just pandemic deflation and urgence?

Good luck on your journey! smile


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Fluxo #2988464 06/06/20 01:50 PM
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Thanks Fluxo. So I ran the number on Petrov's site, and it returned this:

Thank you for your interest in your instrument's history. Your OPUS no. 558217 matches:

Model: III / 3 - A
Year of production: 1998 - 1999
Production site: Hradec Králové

So looks like the piano may have sat with a dealer for a couple years before the guy bought it in 2001, as he says it was purchased new.


Kawai MP11SE
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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988466 06/06/20 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Thanks Fluxo. So I ran the number on Petrov's site, and it returned this:

Thank you for your interest in your instrument's history. Your OPUS no. 558217 matches:

Model: III / 3 - A
Year of production: 1998 - 1999
Production site: Hradec Králové

So looks like the piano may have sat with a dealer for a couple years before the guy bought it in 2001, as he says it was purchased new.

Well, no that much older... If it sounds and plays to your liking and especially if it has Renner action and hammers, I would say go for it!

All the best.


Fluxo

Sauter V 182
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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Rich Galassini #2988469 06/06/20 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Just for fun, here is a Petrof III from 1993 that came in sounding like a bag of cats. We worked with the piano and got a nice result: https://youtu.be/OnR_RFuXEKY

Good luck Emery!

Wow, that’s quite a description for a bad sounding piano. laugh

Last edited by j&j; 06/06/20 01:58 PM.

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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Rich Galassini #2988492 06/06/20 03:05 PM
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Rich:

I wish that you and Hugh could have heard my III after David Stanwood and Mike Miccio got through with it. It was an elegant and distinguished sound with a fabulous action. Interestingly, it very much had its own, unique sound. One might have said it was Middle-European but it was shot-through with marvelous colour and depth.
It was a truly lovely piano.

Karl

Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
j&j #2988498 06/06/20 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Just for fun, here is a Petrof III from 1993 that came in sounding like a bag of cats. We worked with the piano and got a nice result: https://youtu.be/OnR_RFuXEKY

Good luck Emery!

Wow, that’s quite a description for a bad sounding piano. laugh

I was thinking that myself!! grin


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988525 06/06/20 04:14 PM
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I found a Petrof model 4 last year ,really lovely tone (made 2003) I asked a technician if it had a Renner action and yes it did, clearly marked Renner.The price was $17,000CAD.
If I was seriously looking for a grand I probably would have taken that piano.So I agree this may be a good chance to buy an excellant instrument !

Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2988541 06/06/20 04:53 PM
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I would ask of the owner, at the very least, to supply an audio recording before I would book a flight.

BTW, my 1999-2000 Piano Book supplement lists the Petrof III list price at $21,980. That was before Larry published SMPs. It also states that all 5'3",5'8" and regular 6'4" grands have Renner action parts installed on a Petrof action frame at the Petrof factory. The III-M 6'4" model has a complete Renner action along with other refinements.

Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Karl Watson #2989191 06/08/20 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Watson
Rich:

I wish that you and Hugh could have heard my III after David Stanwood and Mike Miccio got through with it. It was an elegant and distinguished sound with a fabulous action. Interestingly, it very much had its own, unique sound. One might have said it was Middle-European but it was shot-through with marvelous colour and depth.
It was a truly lovely piano.

Karl

Hey Karl, what year was your III?


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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
TBell #2989192 06/08/20 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TBell
I would ask of the owner, at the very least, to supply an audio recording before I would book a flight.

BTW, my 1999-2000 Piano Book supplement lists the Petrof III list price at $21,980. That was before Larry published SMPs. It also states that all 5'3",5'8" and regular 6'4" grands have Renner action parts installed on a Petrof action frame at the Petrof factory. The III-M 6'4" model has a complete Renner action along with other refinements.

Ha! The ad from Living Pianos that Fluxo linked to showed a list price of $83,964 and a sale price of $25,799. Evidently they didn't read the supplement!


Kawai MP11SE
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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Karl Watson #2989196 06/08/20 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Watson
Rich:

I wish that you and Hugh could have heard my III after David Stanwood and Mike Miccio got through with it. It was an elegant and distinguished sound with a fabulous action. Interestingly, it very much had its own, unique sound. One might have said it was Middle-European but it was shot-through with marvelous colour and depth.
It was a truly lovely piano.

Karl

OH YES! I am quite sure your Petrof was stunning. It was also very much improved and shaped from what left the factory. I know David personally and Mike by reputation. Although I never saw your Petrof, I am certain it was a thing of beauty.


Rich Galassini
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Re: Which Petrofs should be in this list?
Emery Wang #2991168 06/13/20 06:33 PM
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If you take off the fallboard and partly pull out the action, you should be able to see a Renner label attached to the aluminum rail.
Good luck, sounds like a good one.


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