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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987718 06/04/20 08:06 AM
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I’ve found it. After purchasing my P-515, I went into the velocity settings. 127! Of course, most of those are probably interpolations, and I’m still wondering how many were REAL samples, but I found it.

Last edited by joemama42O; 06/04/20 08:06 AM.

Finally bought the P515
Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987728 06/04/20 08:38 AM
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That’s standard for all MIDI devices.


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987734 06/04/20 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by joemama42O
I’ve found it. After purchasing my P-515, I went into the velocity settings. 127! Of course, most of those are probably interpolations, and I’m still wondering how many were REAL samples, but I found it.

You're messing up stuff. 127 are the MIDI velocity steps sent by the keyboard. You can have one sample layer per key and replay it with different volume in 127 steps. Still one layer.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987745 06/04/20 09:40 AM
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But each of those 127 steps is either extrapolated, or a real sample. So, as long as there are three real samples per note, it doesn't matter does it? It'll be prettey close. Maybe too close for some; pianos can sound strange when you whack 'em too hard . . .


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987755 06/04/20 10:10 AM
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Why Nord samples sound so realistic in comparison with others?

On the other side, Nord has a very few(String Resonance/Pedal Noise/Release) piano parameters in comparison with Yamaha/Kawai or even Casio.

It's a trade-off ? (on the way that they record the sample)

A lot of piano parameters X full sound(more realistic?)

It's a thing that a never understood.

Last edited by Otavio; 06/04/20 10:13 AM.
Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987757 06/04/20 10:14 AM
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So, as long as there are three real samples per note, it doesn't matter does it? It'll be prettey close.

No it won't. An acoustic piano sounds dramatically different when played softly than when played loudly. A loud strike compresses the hammer more, making it in effect harder. More overtones are produced in the resulting sound. With new, fluffy hammers a soft note muffles the overtones.

Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
Otavio #2987759 06/04/20 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Otavio
Why Nord samples sound so realistic in comparison with others?

<facepalm>


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
NormB #2987856 06/04/20 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NormB
Quote
So, as long as there are three real samples per note, it doesn't matter does it? It'll be prettey close.

No it won't. An acoustic piano sounds dramatically different when played softly than when played loudly. A loud strike compresses the hammer more, making it in effect harder. More overtones are produced in the resulting sound. With new, fluffy hammers a soft note muffles the overtones.

I've never heard a digital on full whack sound anything like a concert grand, which almost explodes on those bass notes. But maybe someone here can demonstrate such . . . .and how much it'd cost me!

Last edited by peterws; 06/04/20 02:04 PM.

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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
NormB #2987862 06/04/20 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
But each of those 127 steps is either extrapolated, or a real sample. So, as long as there are three real samples per note, it doesn't matter does it? It'll be prettey close. Maybe too close for some; pianos can sound strange when you whack 'em too hard . . .
Originally Posted by NormB
Quote
So, as long as there are three real samples per note, it doesn't matter does it? It'll be prettey close.

No it won't. An acoustic piano sounds dramatically different when played softly than when played loudly. A loud strike compresses the hammer more, making it in effect harder. More overtones are produced in the resulting sound. With new, fluffy hammers a soft note muffles the overtones.

Whether it sounds "dramatically different" depends on the implementation. I think most modern mid-high end DPs nowadays have 88-key sampling, and 3-4 velocity layers between pp-ff. However, those layers are blended so that you do not hear a sudden transition if you play a key at velocity 40 and again at velocity 41. Blended well, just a few base velocity layers seems to work fairly well.

Older DPs didn't do blending, and it was REALLY obvious. I recall playing on a Kurzweil CUP2 and you could tell it had 3 velocity layers that changed very abruptly between a p and m strike.

Modern VSTs may have dozens or even hundreds of discrete velocity layers, thousands of samples per key for round robins, etc.


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987883 06/04/20 03:04 PM
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My CLP150 (2002) has 3 levels which are not blended. The threshold are set in higher levels, then it is hard to discover them without using fixed velocity which are incremented. The drawback is that only 1 layer is used most of the time.


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
peterws #2987889 06/04/20 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
I've never heard a digital on full whack sound anything like a concert grand, which almost explodes on those bass notes. But maybe someone here can demonstrate such . . . .and how much it'd cost me!

Should we include the phenomenon where you hit the bass notes so hard that the damper wires start to "zing" off the bass strings? Or is that opening a can of worms that could distract from discussions of pivot length or una corda reproduction?


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987918 06/04/20 04:16 PM
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Wires zing
Una corda
Pivot length

Wires zing
Una corda
Pivot length

Tastes great
Less filling

The arguments will never end. smile

(It's your turn, Pete.)

Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2987965 06/04/20 06:29 PM
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I’m a little late, but you’re right, it never ends! wink

Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
terminaldegree #2987968 06/04/20 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by peterws
I've never heard a digital on full whack sound anything like a concert grand, which almost explodes on those bass notes. But maybe someone here can demonstrate such . . . .and how much it'd cost me!

Should we include the phenomenon where you hit the bass notes so hard that the damper wires start to "zing" off the bass strings? Or is that opening a can of worms that could distract from discussions of pivot length or una corda reproduction?

I sometimes wonder if it's possible to stress those strings beyond their elstic limit doin' such stuff. I had a Wurly piano which sounded real funky when you hit it hard.
You then had to order new cantilevers, and tune them yourself by filing them.
So you quickly lost interest in said funkiness.


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Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
Pete14 #2987981 06/04/20 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m a little late, but you’re right, it never ends! wink

I know! Those pesky looped samples!

Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
CyberGene #2988035 06/05/20 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by joemama42O
I’ve found it. After purchasing my P-515, I went into the velocity settings. 127! Of course, most of those are probably interpolations, and I’m still wondering how many were REAL samples, but I found it.

You're messing up stuff. 127 are the MIDI velocity steps sent by the keyboard. You can have one sample layer per key and replay it with different volume in 127 steps. Still one layer.
That's... what I was saying.


Finally bought the P515
Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2988051 06/05/20 01:51 AM
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You found what was already known. I suppose that's why people are not excited about the discovery. 😄

Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
joemama42O #2988092 06/05/20 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by joemama42O
I’m not talking about the Yamaha virtual pianos— I’m talking about the built-in Yamaha CFX Grand voice on Yamaha digital pianos such as the P515 and the YDP-144. I’ve heard that Pure CF Sampling has only 4 samples per note which I feel is a bit too little. So I’m wondering how many samples per note Yamaha’s CFX Sampling has.


Official statement from my yamaha dealer: Sufficient :-).

But I asked for a motor cycle and wanted to know the horsepower....if that counts...

Galuwen

Last edited by Galuwen; 06/05/20 07:17 AM.
Re: How many samples per key does Yamaha’s CFX Sampling have?
Galuwen #2988106 06/05/20 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Galuwen
Official statement from my yamaha dealer: Sufficient :-).

But I asked for a motor cycle and wanted to know the horsepower....if that counts...

There's also the case of Torque and HP curve. They're not static measurements. So in the end, we either TRUST Yamaha, or not, Jesus take the wheel.

IMHO, all the modern DPs sound -Good Enough- certainly for general Piano playing.

Last edited by jeffcat; 06/05/20 08:13 AM.
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