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Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
#2986947 06/02/20 08:56 AM
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rsoby Offline OP
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Hello,

I am only a hobby piano player...my level is not very high but since I sold gear (guitars, basses, amps, ...) and got really good money for it I wanted to invest in a new (or used) grand piano.

I have been playing a lot of models in the past few months...the one that struck me most was a F212 built by Fazioli...only downpoint : it is not for sale but they rent it for concerts etc...

Now comes where I need your help : the seller (who is also a piano tech) wants me to order the same model unseen and unplayed. By early September the factory should have 3 finished F212 that I could choose from... Due to Covid I really do NOT want to travel to Italy and that's why the seller wants to come to my home...check the room's acoustics...my playing style and the sound I am looking for...and then pick one after getting a description of how the 3 differ in sound etc... He also claims that no matter which one I'd take he could get it 100% like I want it to sound later when the piano will be in my living room!

Is that something you would do or should I only buy what I played before? People say that Faziolis are consistent instruments but I really feel a bit confused...

Please help me getting in the right direction! Thank you!!

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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986952 06/02/20 09:08 AM
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As a musical instrument you will get one of the best in the world. It will fit your preferences and beyond.

As an investment, not so good.

Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986957 06/02/20 09:25 AM
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Never buy a piano unseen and unheard.

I once went to a store that had 6 Schimmel K219's. One was spectacular in touch and tone and i fell for it immediately. The others of the same model didn't even compare.
-chris


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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986958 06/02/20 09:25 AM
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There is a good likelihood that a not insignificant part of what you like about that particular Fazioli is that it has been matured through the extra prep work and playing that rental instruments get. So, another Fazioli will sound and play differently until it is played in and prepped similarly.
With that said, Faziolis are beautiful pianos and the 212 is no exception. If you still feel unsure about ordering the Fazioli site unseen why not try and make an arrangement to try and purchase the rental piano.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
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New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986970 06/02/20 10:02 AM
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I’ve never had the opportunity to play a Fazioli. As I’ve read and heard about, they are built to the finest standards. If I were going to buy a piano sight unseen, a Fazioli would be one of the very few brands with which I would feel comfortable doing that. I myself would buy surgical masks and surgical gloves and a boat load of sanitizer and go to the factory and play all three when ready. Fazioli’s are very expensive and that alone would make me overcome my fear of COVID-19, especially by September. That’s just me.

Best Wishes!

Last edited by j&j; 06/02/20 10:04 AM.

J & J
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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986979 06/02/20 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rsoby
Hello,

I am only a hobby piano player...my level is not very high but since I sold gear (guitars, basses, amps, ...) and got really good money for it I wanted to invest in a new (or used) grand piano.

I have been playing a lot of models in the past few months...the one that struck me most was a F212 built by Fazioli...only downpoint : it is not for sale but they rent it for concerts etc...

Now comes where I need your help : the seller (who is also a piano tech) wants me to order the same model unseen and unplayed. By early September the factory should have 3 finished F212 that I could choose from... Due to Covid I really do NOT want to travel to Italy and that's why the seller wants to come to my home...check the room's acoustics...my playing style and the sound I am looking for...and then pick one after getting a description of how the 3 differ in sound etc... He also claims that no matter which one I'd take he could get it 100% like I want it to sound later when the piano will be in my living room!

Is that something you would do or should I only buy what I played before? People say that Faziolis are consistent instruments but I really feel a bit confused...

Please help me getting in the right direction! Thank you!!


Interesting.

The room acoustics DO make a large difference indeed. And yes a piano can be slightly corrected to better fit the room.

But the options are limited, I would always play the piano and make sure I like it before buying.

>I am only a hobby piano player...my level is not very high but since I sold gear (guitars, basses, amps, ...) and got really good money for it I wanted to invest in a new (or used) grand piano.

Which means that you can probably not describe or even do not yet know what exactly you want from that piano. Which means that they can not deliver what you want. You can point them to that rental piano but I would not be convinced that they can 'clone' that sound.

"People say that Faziolis are consistent instruments", well why then would they need to pick one of three best matching your request?

But I still expect that you can buy that rental Fazioli. Maybe you have to wait till they have bought a new one from your payment?

Another possibility, did you check with the tech of that rental company? It might be his work that made that piano stand out.


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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986989 06/02/20 11:43 AM
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I could never buy a piano that I have never tried. There may be just something about the voicing ,or something very different from the rental piano that is just not there.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 06/02/20 11:45 AM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2986995 06/02/20 12:03 PM
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I agree with Keith.


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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2987016 06/02/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rsoby
Hello,

I am only a hobby piano player...my level is not very high but since I sold gear (guitars, basses, amps, ...) and got really good money for it I wanted to invest in a new (or used) grand piano.

I have been playing a lot of models in the past few months...the one that struck me most was a F212 built by Fazioli...only downpoint : it is not for sale but they rent it for concerts etc...

Now comes where I need your help : the seller (who is also a piano tech) wants me to order the same model unseen and unplayed. By early September the factory should have 3 finished F212 that I could choose from... Due to Covid I really do NOT want to travel to Italy and that's why the seller wants to come to my home...check the room's acoustics...my playing style and the sound I am looking for...and then pick one after getting a description of how the 3 differ in sound etc... He also claims that no matter which one I'd take he could get it 100% like I want it to sound later when the piano will be in my living room!

Is that something you would do or should I only buy what I played before? People say that Faziolis are consistent instruments but I really feel a bit confused...

Please help me getting in the right direction! Thank you!!

If the seller is so confident and wants you to buy sight unseen let them take the risk. Say 'sure go ahead, get it it, prep it and install it in my house to try. If I like it as much as *this one here you are renting* then I'll buy it.

Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2987034 06/02/20 01:47 PM
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Are the seller and the owner of the rental piano the same entity?


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
ShiroKuro #2987045 06/02/20 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ubu
As an investment, not so good.

No, I chose the wrong words...I want to make myself a pleasure!!


Originally Posted by wouter79
Which means that you can probably not describe or even do not yet know what exactly you want from that piano. Which means that they can not deliver what you want. You can point them to that rental piano but I would not be convinced that they can 'clone' that sound.

You are probably right, my experience is not that big that I'll be able to express it in words!

Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Are the seller and the owner of the rental piano the same entity?

Yes they are! And the man I had contact with is the one who preps their Faziolis.

I'll get in touch with them again and maybe push a bit more to get that rental F212 I played... You are probably right saying that it is too dangerous to buy sight unseen...
It will be the rental Fazioli or another grand piano I will have played before!!

Thanks all for chiming in!!

Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
terminaldegree #2987051 06/02/20 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
I agree with Keith.

You should just make this your signature.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2987063 06/02/20 02:58 PM
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Fazioli make such beautiful pianos and the quality control is such that it's extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely unlikely that the piano will have any problems.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that you will like the sound and touch of it....

Like any piano - like every piano - Fazioli also require the right treatment from a qualified technician who knows what they're doing. The piano itself is something of a blank canvas, and it needs to be prepped and prepped and prepped, and that's something that happens over a period of time.

What I would do in this situation is simply wait until you can travel. If it has to be a Fazioli, wait until you can travel to Italy or the nearest dealer that has three in stock. If it doesn't have to be a Fazioli, then put the Fazioli 212 on your shortlist and keep trying other pianos.

My experience with Fazioli is that they all respond to the technician very well, there isn't a bad model, and I haven't yet played the duff one. For my tastes they're a little bit bright perhaps, they kind of swell a bit too soon for me, but that's totally personal. There are other instruments that I would buy before I would buy a Fazioli but the thing is, they are a finest amongst equals. The other great pianos just as good as Fazioli are Bösendorfer, C. Bechstein, Blüthner, Hamburg Steinway, Steingraeber. I'm still conflicted about New York Steinway. Some Yamahas can be at that level too, although generally they don't have the same body to the sound, but again that's personal. My own personal preference does not speak to build quality.

It's such a huge amount of money you'll be spending I think it's wiser to wait.

Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2987076 06/02/20 03:15 PM
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Just got a Fazioli as a nonprofessional as well. No way I would buy without trying, as that’s a terribly pricey thing to be stuck with if you don’t love that example. I personally would get my hands on a couple N95 masks or equivalents and travel to chose. If travel is prohibited by then, I’m not sure what I would do.

Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2987132 06/02/20 05:48 PM
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If you're going to spend that much money on a piano, you should definitely go to Italy to pick the one you like. Every single piano, even the same model, is different. Let alone a handmade one. What a better piano is, is also extremely subjective. I will never take the risk of letting someone pick one for me.

Wait till covid-19 is over and have a great trip in Italy. Go travel around while include a stop at the Fazioli factory.

Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
kiwibd #2987137 06/02/20 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwibd
If you're going to spend that much money on a piano, you should definitely go to Italy to pick the one you like. Every single piano, even the same model, is different. Let alone a handmade one. What a better piano is, is also extremely subjective. I will never take the risk of letting someone pick one for me.

Wait till covid-19 is over and have a great trip in Italy. Go travel around while include a stop at the Fazioli factory.

That's what I'd say too, this shouldn't be an impulse purchase laugh


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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
Keith D Kerman #2987171 06/02/20 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
You should just make this your signature.

Your wish is my command.
(at least for 24 hours)


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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
rsoby #2987178 06/02/20 08:06 PM
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I've played many Faziolis-- 212, 228 and 278-- over the past 20 years or so. I'll just add that I have noticed the newer 212s I've played (in the last year) to be superior to older models. They sound fuller across all registers and have more bass. The action seems even more responsive.

I've tried to pin Pierre down on this. He hasn't heard about any up dates to the 212 but then they are typically close lipped about any improvements. He did say a couple of other Pro pianists mentioned the same thing.

The 212 I played at this past NAMM - yes probably the worst place in the world to hear a piano, unless you set it up on the sidewalk of Wilshire blvd. at rush hour- was stunning.


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Re: Would you do that or not? Fazioli content...
terminaldegree #2987218 06/02/20 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
You should just make this your signature.

Your wish is my command.
(at least for 24 hours)

smile


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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