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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2983394 05/24/20 06:01 PM
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I'm happy to have found this long thread full of information, full of passionate Novus 10 owners and interested parties. I have been interested in this instrument for a long time and a purchase is in sight.

I wanted to ask if any of the owners can recommend headphones or just write which ones they use. I think when you buy such an instrument, you want maximum sound quality even through the headphones, ideally with a high wearing comfort for long playing.

It is clear to me that those high-end headphones all have different sound nuances and that in the end it's probably a matter of personal taste, but I would still be interested in your opinions.

And in the past I unfortunately also had experience with incompatibility between headphones and digital pianos. For example, I would have liked to use the beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition headphones for my Roland FP-30, but this combination caused an unpleasant "cracking" effect at higher tones, so I had to use compatible headphones by Roland in the end.

But the beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition headphones otherwise had a great sound and very pleasant wearing comfort, so that I am considering them for the Novus 10.

What headphones do you use or recommend? Is there anything to consider?

Kind regards,
Tim

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #2983532 05/25/20 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Btw, I'm sitting at my NV-10 now and I can't really tell the difference between an una corda strike and a softer-struck normal strike. Maybe the brilliance is reduced a bit? But any timbre change is very subtle to my ears.

Have you tried adjusting the "Soft Pedal Depth" Virtual Technician parameter?

Kind regards,
James
x


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"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
CyberGene #2983533 05/25/20 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
As to una-corda being half-pedal on the CA99, I believe James mentioned (?) the actual una-corda effect is binary. It’s only the pedal that’s continuous which can be useful for Hammond organ, synth modulations, MIDI out, etc.

I'm afraid I don't remember writing that.
Perhaps you're thinking of the MP11SE/MP7SE when used with the GFP-3 triple pedal unit? All three pedals can transmit continuous data, but the MP's sound engine only supports Soft pedal on/off. However, it's possible to reassign pretty much any effect/parameter to any pedal, meaning that you could an effect progressively using the soft pedal.

The CA99/CA79's updated sound engine does support progressive Soft pedalling, i.e. the depth of the Soft pedal stroke affects the sound produced.

Kind regards,
James
x


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"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
timitalia #2983535 05/25/20 06:15 AM
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Hello Tim, welcome to the forum!

I'm afraid I don't have any personal recommendations regarding headphones for the NV10, however I expect the Novus' headphone amplifier is more powerful than that of the FP30, so should be able drive higher impedance headphones more effectively.

Kind regards,
James
x


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"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2983680 05/25/20 12:31 PM
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If I may ask (James - or anyone else :-)): Has the "pedal problem" (heavy damper pedal, if I understood correctly) been taken care of somehow?

The reason I'm asking is this: When test-playing last week, I found the pedal to be quite heavy still, however, I'm not experienced enough to say if that is normal or not. And of course, I can't make a before/after comparison. What I can say, however, is that it was much heavier than the pedal of the K-300 I have at home.

When I asked the dealer about the early malfunctions/problems of/with the internal speakers and the damper pedal, he told me that both (!) of those had been taken care of through software updates. Regarding the internal speakers, I know this to be true (thanks to this thread!). But regarding the damper pedal, that would be news to me. Does this mean, then, that the pedal installation (hardware) itself is the same, but that its use is being "translated" differently by the software? Or may I have misunderstood?


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2983687 05/25/20 12:43 PM
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Small jump-in. I was recently testing quite a number of DPs and hybrids (my remarks are here).
At my dealers shop the NV-10 has a quite stiff, heavy pedal, as reported by some people. And I mean all the three pedals, not only the damper one.

Many said it seems to be easily adjustable - but you need to replace a spring, possibly with the technician from Kawai (look at the answers in the thread I mentioned above).
I cannot imagine you can adjust it through software - that would be great, but it seems improbable to me after trying it out.
The pedal is still playable, but much much heavier than any Kawai or Yamaha acoustic grand piano that was available in the store for me to test.

For me it was one of the reasons I spent more time with n1 available at the shop than the nv10, though I for sure did not rule out the nv10 yet smile

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Kawai James #2983699 05/25/20 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Btw, I'm sitting at my NV-10 now and I can't really tell the difference between an una corda strike and a softer-struck normal strike. Maybe the brilliance is reduced a bit? But any timbre change is very subtle to my ears.

Have you tried adjusting the "Soft Pedal Depth" Virtual Technician parameter?

I can give that a shot, but to be clear, I'm not having any problems discerning the functioning of the soft pedal when pressed--it's clearly attenuating the sound in a way I would expect. What I'm unsure of is whether the soft pedal reduces the "brilliance" setting or applies any effect/filter other than effectively reducing the velocity of a strike. I don't really use the soft pedal much (ok, at all) so it's really just an academic question for me.


Originally Posted by timitalia
I wanted to ask if any of the owners can recommend headphones or just write which ones they use. I think when you buy such an instrument, you want maximum sound quality even through the headphones, ideally with a high wearing comfort for long playing.

A few of us use and really enjoy the open-back Sennheisers - the HD-598 (recently replaced by the HD-599). They're extremely comfortable since they don't press on your ears, they have a wide open sound stage due to the open-back design (you don't feel isolated from your surroundings), and I think the Sennheisers veil the bass a bit, which happens to work really well with the Kawai sound profile. I've used mine on both an MP11 and NV-10 (and tested in shop with a CA-67 and CA-98) so there aren't any headphone amp issues/incompatibilities.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
podski #2983704 05/25/20 01:04 PM
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Thanks for jumping in, podski! Much appreciated! :-)

Originally Posted by podski
At my dealers shop the NV-10 has a quite stiff, heavy pedal, as reported by some people. And I mean all the three pedals, not only the damper one.

That was my impression as well. And it was, in fact, this uniform (!) heaviness that led me to think that the hardware was not changed. Otherwise, there would possibly be a difference between the pedals now. (But again, this is a greenhorn guessing.)

Originally Posted by podski
Many said it seems to be easily adjustable - but you need to replace a spring, possibly with the technician from Kawai (look at the answers in the thread I mentioned above).

Yeah, I know. That's why I was surprised by my dealer's answer.

Having almost no experience with piano pedals, I just wasn't sure whether the "heaviness" I felt was "heavy-heavy" - or already less heavy than the one experienced by the early adopters who wrote about this here (and who, very successfully, started tampering with the hardware :-)).


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
podski #2983708 05/25/20 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by podski
At my dealers shop the NV-10 has a quite stiff, heavy pedal, as reported by some people. And I mean all the three pedals, not only the damper one.

Many said it seems to be easily adjustable - but you need to replace a spring, possibly with the technician from Kawai (look at the answers in the thread I mentioned above).
I cannot imagine you can adjust it through software - that would be great, but it seems improbable to me after trying it out.
The pedal is still playable, but much much heavier than any Kawai or Yamaha acoustic grand piano that was available in the store for me to test.

The damper pedal on mine is significantly heavier than the other two (and if you look at the internal mechanism, you'll see that the damper uses a different rate spring, plus the actual pedal weight is controlled by a larger felt-lined spring that connects the pedal rod to the damper lift bar (IIRC the other pedals have weights determined by springs in the electronic pedal sensor unit). All springs can be changed, but the damper one is pretty easily accessible to an end user (and of course to a tech).

There's no "software" setting that can affect the physical pedal weight, maybe the dealer was talking about pedal depth and half-pedal settings (which can affect how you feel the pedal behaves because it activates the effect earlier or later in the pedal's travel).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Kawai James #2983733 05/25/20 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Have you tried adjusting the "Soft Pedal Depth" Virtual Technician parameter
Oh wow, great tip. This makes a massive difference. Thank you!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
timitalia #2983760 05/25/20 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by timitalia
I'm happy to have found this long thread full of information, full of passionate Novus 10 owners and interested parties. I have been interested in this instrument for a long time and a purchase is in sight.

I wanted to ask if any of the owners can recommend headphones or just write which ones they use. I think when you buy such an instrument, you want maximum sound quality even through the headphones, ideally with a high wearing comfort for long playing.

It is clear to me that those high-end headphones all have different sound nuances and that in the end it's probably a matter of personal taste, but I would still be interested in your opinions.

And in the past I unfortunately also had experience with incompatibility between headphones and digital pianos. For example, I would have liked to use the beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition headphones for my Roland FP-30, but this combination caused an unpleasant "cracking" effect at higher tones, so I had to use compatible headphones by Roland in the end.

But the beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition headphones otherwise had a great sound and very pleasant wearing comfort, so that I am considering them for the Novus 10.

What headphones do you use or recommend? Is there anything to consider?

Kind regards,
Tim

I use Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO (80 Ohms) version with NV10. And, am very happy with it.

NV10 has a powerful headphone amp and has settings to change the headphone amp to match with the different impedance headphones - so you should have no incompatibility issues.

Osho

Last edited by Osho; 05/25/20 02:09 PM.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #2983761 05/25/20 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
There's no "software" setting that can affect the physical pedal weight, maybe the dealer was talking about pedal depth and half-pedal settings (which can affect how you feel the pedal behaves because it activates the effect earlier or later in the pedal's travel).

Thanks, Gombessa!

I guess that's what my dealer meant: that it's possible to adjust the pedal's behaviour (or more precisely: its point of activation) to one's liking. On the other hand, I'm sure that this option was there from the start. Hey - I'll just ask him. :-)


Kawai Novus NV10; Yamaha P-515

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
timitalia #2983763 05/25/20 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by timitalia
I wanted to ask if any of the owners can recommend headphones or just write which ones they use. I think when you buy such an instrument, you want maximum sound quality even through the headphones, ideally with a high wearing comfort for long playing.

It is clear to me that those high-end headphones all have different sound nuances and that in the end it's probably a matter of personal taste, but I would still be interested in your opinions.

And in the past I unfortunately also had experience with incompatibility between headphones and digital pianos. For example, I would have liked to use the beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition headphones for my Roland FP-30, but this combination caused an unpleasant "cracking" effect at higher tones, so I had to use compatible headphones by Roland in the end.

But the beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition headphones otherwise had a great sound and very pleasant wearing comfort, so that I am considering them for the Novus 10.

What headphones do you use or recommend? Is there anything to consider?

I'm not a fan of headphones but I had put in a little bit of research and ended up buying the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x for practice while traveling. While these headphones sound very pure and beautiful when used with my piano, they sound like headphones. The sound isn't very spacial, the sound feels more like it is localized between my ears, and less like it is coming from the piano.

On the other hand, I found another pair of headphones of unknown provenance (likely obtained as part of a bundle) -- the Samson SR850. The big difference here is that these are semi-open, compared to the ATH-M50x, which are closed.

The semi-open headphones make a massive difference somehow -- the sound feels much more spacial -- more like it is coming from the piano. I sometimes have to check that the sound is not actually coming from the piano.

I'm guessing your preferred headphones are going to be fantastic.

Also note that if headphones are your main use case, you may find Yamaha's competitive offerings of interest, given that they have invested in binaural sampling.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2983893 05/25/20 08:27 PM
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Regarding the "heavy" damper pedal on the NV10, it is my understanding that the acoustic piano division investigated these claims and decided to change the spring installed at the factory.

Therefore, newly manufactured instruments should use the "lighter" spring, however its possible that dealer display models are older instruments, and therefore still use the older, "heavier" spring.

This is a hardware change and not related to software, although it is also possible to change the "Half-Damper Point" of the damper pedal.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2983985 05/26/20 03:29 AM
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Thank you so much for clarifying, James!

I guess all of my NV-related questions are answered now. So the only thing I'm now waiting for is the call by the delivery firm to make an appointment. Well - and the piano. :-)


Kawai Novus NV10; Yamaha P-515

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
navindra #2984054 05/26/20 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
...however I expect the Novus' headphone amplifier is more powerful than that of the FP30, so should be able drive higher impedance headphones more effectively.

Thanks for your reply James!

Originally Posted by Gombessa
A few of us use and really enjoy the open-back Sennheisers - the HD-598 (recently replaced by the HD-599). They're extremely comfortable since they don't press on your ears, they have a wide open sound stage due to the open-back design (you don't feel isolated from your surroundings), and I think the Sennheisers veil the bass a bit, which happens to work really well with the Kawai sound profile. I've used mine on both an MP11 and NV-10 (and tested in shop with a CA-67 and CA-98) so there aren't any headphone amp issues/incompatibilities.

Thank you Gombessa for this information, I will try them as well.


Originally Posted by Osho
I use Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO (80 Ohms) version with NV10. And, am very happy with it.

NV10 has a powerful headphone amp and has settings to change the headphone amp to match with the different impedance headphones - so you should have no incompatibility issues.

Osho

Thanks Osho, happy to hear that as I also had a very good experience with the Beyerdynamic in the past.


Originally Posted by navindra
I'm not a fan of headphones but I had put in a little bit of research and ended up buying the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x for practice while traveling. While these headphones sound very pure and beautiful when used with my piano, they sound like headphones. The sound isn't very spacial, the sound feels more like it is localized between my ears, and less like it is coming from the piano.

On the other hand, I found another pair of headphones of unknown provenance (likely obtained as part of a bundle) -- the Samson SR850. The big difference here is that these are semi-open, compared to the ATH-M50x, which are closed.

The semi-open headphones make a massive difference somehow -- the sound feels much more spacial -- more like it is coming from the piano. I sometimes have to check that the sound is not actually coming from the piano.

I'm guessing your preferred headphones are going to be fantastic.

Also note that if headphones are your main use case, you may find Yamaha's competitive offerings of interest, given that they have invested in binaural sampling.

Thank you navindra for sharing your observations. Now I really got good ideas on what to test. And thanks for pointing out Yamaha's binaural sampling, that's interesting I didn't know that. However, for me, the excellent authentic key action, along with the great sound (through the speakers) is one of the main reasons why I prefer the NV-10 over the equivalent models from Yamaha - although I will probably (have to) practice/play a lot of the time over headphones.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2984540 05/27/20 10:27 AM
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Well, my new N1X arrived yesterday and I have to say that I am already quite pleased with it. And even after such a short while I also see more clearly some ways in which it diverges a bit from an acoustic grand. Overall, the action is really, really nice. Moreover, I find that the action and sensing electronics work together really well—so well that I can play more softly on this thing than I ever could on an acoustic grand.

I will say that my first impressions playing at home are that the action doesn’t feel absolutely the same as on an acoustic grand (AG from here on). This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In fact, the one really spooky thing about the N1X here is how absolutely uniform every single one of the 88 keys plays just like the one next to it. Every AG I have played on had not so subtle variations from note to note, usually perhaps the result of imperfect regulation and wear. This is a good thing, but spooky; I have never even played a showroom AG that was so uniform. Another thing that I noticed is neither good nor bad IMHO: in contrast to AGs, you can’t feel the jack reset on the knuckle, which on the AG also corresponds to the hammer releasing from the backcheck with considerable force. I can’t see that it affect my pathetic playing, but it is definitely different. Perhaps the N1X hammers are not holding quite the same level of energy when held by the backcheck as do AG hammers after their rebound from the strings. The third thing that I noticed about the action being different I don’t like, although it is a very minor point. On AGs the bass hammers are of course heavier than those in the treble section. But more importantly, when playing quickly they have much more inertia. I don’t feel this difference on the N1X. The key weight is of course greater in the bass section, but the inertia isn’t much greater. It is as if perhaps Yamaha compensated for lighter hammers than an AG by using more lead weights in the keys. But in any case this minor difference is one I notice, but does not affect playing in any way that I can see.

I like the sound, too. My only qualification here is that I do wish that Yamaha had put in speakers that could better capture the low notes, which don’t match an AG in power. As a connected issue, it would have been nice to have added an internal equalizer. I have also found that the sound projects differently than on an AG. I have the N1X against a wall in a 4 x 10 meter room. When I was playing at a level I thought mimicked what I would hear playing an AG my audience of one 3 meters away thought that things were ‘too loud’.

I DO HAVE A QUESTION: can anyone with an N1X actually hear that the una corda pedal is actually doing anything?

Last edited by NormB; 05/27/20 10:28 AM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2984542 05/27/20 10:29 AM
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You might have intended this for the N1X thread?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
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Quote
You might have intended this for the N1X thread?

SORRY!! I messed up. That was my intent. Can't delete the thing now. Again, I apologize. Norman

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2984590 05/27/20 11:58 AM
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I've just been informed that my NV10 is going to be delivered next Thursday. YES!

A quick question regarding assembly (which will be done by the delivery guys, a.k.a. piano movers): Is there anything you'd recommend me to inspect closely before letting the movers leave? Anything that might be done improperly or even forgot? Or are there, from your experience with your own NV10's, piano parts that are particularly fragile that I should check?


Kawai Novus NV10; Yamaha P-515

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Hugh Sung, Popular Piano course (in progress)
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