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The Bösendorfer doesn't have LINE OUT.

Though it has serious TRS.

$77,000 and it doesn’t even have a line out? This is a scam!

How can a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright possibly be worth $77,000 when.a Fazioli F308 lists for just $224,600?

I'm an American that lives in Switzerland. Except for two good furnace repairmen, we've never had any service person of any value in the US. Our favorite is the dishwasher repairman that, once he had our washing machine in pieces on our back porch, admitted that he only received 10 days training.

Totally! It makes it almost worthless for gigging, or even just for bringing it over to a friends house for a jam session.

@PizzaGuy: Yes, there crappy repairman everywhere. And crappy piano tuners. And crappy doctors, too.
You just have to find a few good ones and stick with them.

Probably doesn't even have escapement, simulated or real, either...…

Ah, but the Fazioli does have escapement - er, Ithink.

The mp11se has simulated feeling of escapement, the Bosendorfer has real escapement as does every acoustic piano.

I don't get how criticizing the (in my opinion) excessively high price of pianos turns me into a communist. I myself buy and sell things every day, i work, i get paid, i pay. I have sense of what is approximately the value of the things and the cost of producing them. You pay for the materials, you pay labour, machines, buildings, you get all the expenses, you have it, simple marhs. No politics involved. It would be nice if someone from inside yamaha or Kawai or roland would tell us how much money they cost to get done 1 unit of any of their pianos. Of course that's not going to happen.

Ubu, apologies if you felt offended by my post (since I mentioned communism). My comment was rather generic and elaborated on QuasiUnaFantasia’s post that mentioned Marxism. I didn’t mean to sound like I’m referring to you. Many people seem to sometimes question what seems like high prices and by an extension it’s similar to how communism was supposed to solve these problems. It didn’t.

I also did not imply that anyone is a Marxist, and I realize that the rather bold tone in my first post may have been too harsh.

The reason I mentioned Marxism is that it harbours the wrong idea that things (and services) have an intrinsic value regardless of what buyers and sellers think about it. This view is quite widespread, also among people who do in no way qualify as Marxists.

The view itself is still wrong though, beauty really does lie in the eye of the beholder.

I disagree that today's digital pianos are over-priced. Although I haven't yet tested the Kawai CA79, the impression I have is that this is a fabulous DP with excellent tonal values, and action that the majority of players find quite satisfying. The rosewood-stained model is officially selling in the states for $4,100, and even if that price isn't bargained down I find it acceptable for what Kawai is offering.

But let's try to understand something here. A person is not just paying for the physical materials in a digital piano; the selling price charged also has to take into account research and development, which is not cheap. And in Kawai's case, a portion of the sale has to be sent to Onkyo, which is chiefly responsible for the speakers. And finally, unlike their acoustic counterparts (which are in no way inexpensive) there is a time limit that a digital piano can be offered at full retail to the buying public. That time limit is typically two to four years before new models are offered, cutting down on the salability of the current models. A company will not only have to recoup its costs, but make a large enough profit to continue in business.

Don't worry guys. No offense. We just chat here. You don't need to apologize as far as I'm concern.

I think that, back in the day when actions and sounds were pretty rubbish by today's standards, they were over-priced based on current expectations/perceptions.

The thing is, manufacturers shifted stock - people were willing to pay for them. So I guess they were priced correctly at the time... but I doubt anyone shopping for a DP now would even consider them.

Who knows, we may have the same opinions of our current crop of DPs in 20 years or so?

It also very much depends on which models we're talking about - flagship models do demand a disproportionately higher price than the mid-range DPs IMO.

Getting up to ££ hybrid territory (ie real action), would any of you not be inclined to buy an acoustic piano instead (living circumstances allowing)? I know that I would!

Actually, I wouldn't want an acoustic piano even if I got a good one for free somehow.

With my digital piano I can play using different voices if I want to -- not that I do very often but still, it's there when I want it. I was playing Bach on a sitar last night.

My piano is always in perfect tune, I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing), I can play with headphones if I don't want to bother anyone else, and I don't need three men and a small boy to to help me move it so I can dust behind it.

And I can buy ten top-of-the-line digital pianos for the price of one top-of-the-line acoustic piano.

But does a top-of-the-line digital sound as good as even a bottom-of-the-line acoustic?

I most certainly would prefer the acoustic over the hybrid. Here in Denmark it would be easy to find a used grand in fine condition at the same price as a new N1X or NV-10.

EDIT: I just checked a Danish website, where people advertise their stuff for sale, and today there was a Gaveau grand advertised for 267 EUR (abot 300 USD). Judging by the pictures, it is in good condition. But even allowing for quite a lot of work done to it, the price would still fall short of the price for a new hybrid.

Imo, i think this is actually bad practice. I didn't realize this before but ever since i got an acoustic, I noticed I have shitty dynamics because there is no volume control knob. If you ever plan on playing on an acoustic, you should consider this a disadvantage not an advantage unless you play the digital at max volume control and leave the volume to your fingers.

+1

Good point! And you sit always on the "sweetspot" of the acoustic projection. And old saying of Sound engineers is: The worst place in the concert hall is in front of the Grand piano :-).

And you can adapt your piano and room setting to the Music you are playing. Classic > no problem "Concert Grand and concert hall, Jazz? Also ok > Baby Grand, Cover closed, Room acoustics of an old Jazz Caffee "voila" :-)

Galuwen