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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868 |
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000? The Bösendorfer doesn't have LINE OUT.
Roland FP-30, Roland E-28 Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,376
6000 Post Club Member
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6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,376 |
Though it has serious TRS.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,477
3000 Post Club Member
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3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,477 |
$77,000 and it doesn’t even have a line out? This is a scam! 
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451 |
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000? How can a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright possibly be worth $77,000 when.a Fazioli F308 lists for just $224,600? 
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53 |
I don't know about refrigerators in Switzerland, but over here refreigerators are easy to fix. I'm an American that lives in Switzerland. Except for two good furnace repairmen, we've never had any service person of any value in the US. Our favorite is the dishwasher repairman that, once he had our washing machine in pieces on our back porch, admitted that he only received 10 days training.
Current: Kawai NV10, Reface CP Previous: Kawai CA-95, Ensoniq KT-88, 1920's Upright
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868 |
$77,000 and it doesn’t even have a line out? This is a scam!  Totally! It makes it almost worthless for gigging, or even just for bringing it over to a friends house for a jam session.
Roland FP-30, Roland E-28 Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917 |
@PizzaGuy: Yes, there crappy repairman everywhere. And crappy piano tuners. And crappy doctors, too. You just have to find a few good ones and stick with them.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 784
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 784 |
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000? The Bösendorfer doesn't have LINE OUT. Probably doesn't even have escapement, simulated or real, either...… How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000? How can a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright possibly be worth $77,000 when.a Fazioli F308 lists for just $224,600?  Ah, but the Fazioli does have escapement - er, Ithink.
regards Pete
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451 |
The mp11se has simulated feeling of escapement, the Bosendorfer has real escapement as does every acoustic piano.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348 |
I don't get how criticizing the (in my opinion) excessively high price of pianos turns me into a communist. I myself buy and sell things every day, i work, i get paid, i pay. I have sense of what is approximately the value of the things and the cost of producing them. You pay for the materials, you pay labour, machines, buildings, you get all the expenses, you have it, simple marhs. No politics involved. It would be nice if someone from inside yamaha or Kawai or roland would tell us how much money they cost to get done 1 unit of any of their pianos. Of course that's not going to happen.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,423
6000 Post Club Member
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6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,423 |
Ubu, apologies if you felt offended by my post (since I mentioned communism). My comment was rather generic and elaborated on QuasiUnaFantasia’s post that mentioned Marxism. I didn’t mean to sound like I’m referring to you. Many people seem to sometimes question what seems like high prices and by an extension it’s similar to how communism was supposed to solve these problems. It didn’t.
My YouTube, My SoundcloudCurrently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868 |
I also did not imply that anyone is a Marxist, and I realize that the rather bold tone in my first post may have been too harsh.
The reason I mentioned Marxism is that it harbours the wrong idea that things (and services) have an intrinsic value regardless of what buyers and sellers think about it. This view is quite widespread, also among people who do in no way qualify as Marxists.
The view itself is still wrong though, beauty really does lie in the eye of the beholder.
Roland FP-30, Roland E-28 Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 263
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 263 |
I disagree that today's digital pianos are over-priced. Although I haven't yet tested the Kawai CA79, the impression I have is that this is a fabulous DP with excellent tonal values, and action that the majority of players find quite satisfying. The rosewood-stained model is officially selling in the states for $4,100, and even if that price isn't bargained down I find it acceptable for what Kawai is offering.
But let's try to understand something here. A person is not just paying for the physical materials in a digital piano; the selling price charged also has to take into account research and development, which is not cheap. And in Kawai's case, a portion of the sale has to be sent to Onkyo, which is chiefly responsible for the speakers. And finally, unlike their acoustic counterparts (which are in no way inexpensive) there is a time limit that a digital piano can be offered at full retail to the buying public. That time limit is typically two to four years before new models are offered, cutting down on the salability of the current models. A company will not only have to recoup its costs, but make a large enough profit to continue in business.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348
Full Member
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348 |
Don't worry guys. No offense. We just chat here. You don't need to apologize as far as I'm concern.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 453
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 453 |
I think that, back in the day when actions and sounds were pretty rubbish by today's standards, they were over-priced based on current expectations/perceptions.
The thing is, manufacturers shifted stock - people were willing to pay for them. So I guess they were priced correctly at the time... but I doubt anyone shopping for a DP now would even consider them.
Who knows, we may have the same opinions of our current crop of DPs in 20 years or so?
It also very much depends on which models we're talking about - flagship models do demand a disproportionately higher price than the mid-range DPs IMO.
Getting up to ££ hybrid territory (ie real action), would any of you not be inclined to buy an acoustic piano instead (living circumstances allowing)? I know that I would!
Last edited by OscarRamsey; 05/24/20 03:00 PM.
Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point.
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,126
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,126 |
Actually, I wouldn't want an acoustic piano even if I got a good one for free somehow. With my digital piano I can play using different voices if I want to -- not that I do very often but still, it's there when I want it. I was playing Bach on a sitar last night.  My piano is always in perfect tune, I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing), I can play with headphones if I don't want to bother anyone else, and I don't need three men and a small boy to to help me move it so I can dust behind it. And I can buy ten top-of-the-line digital pianos for the price of one top-of-the-line acoustic piano.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend! We got both kinds of music: Country and Western! Casio Celviano AP-650
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917 |
But does a top-of-the-line digital sound as good as even a bottom-of-the-line acoustic?
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868 |
Getting up to ££ hybrid territory (ie real action), would any of you not be inclined to buy an acoustic piano instead (living circumstances allowing)? I know that I would! I most certainly would prefer the acoustic over the hybrid. Here in Denmark it would be easy to find a used grand in fine condition at the same price as a new N1X or NV-10. EDIT: I just checked a Danish website, where people advertise their stuff for sale, and today there was a Gaveau grand advertised for 267 EUR (abot 300 USD). Judging by the pictures, it is in good condition. But even allowing for quite a lot of work done to it, the price would still fall short of the price for a new hybrid.
Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 05/24/20 04:14 PM.
Roland FP-30, Roland E-28 Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 121
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 121 |
I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing) Imo, i think this is actually bad practice. I didn't realize this before but ever since i got an acoustic, I noticed I have shitty dynamics because there is no volume control knob. If you ever plan on playing on an acoustic, you should consider this a disadvantage not an advantage unless you play the digital at max volume control and leave the volume to your fingers.
Currently: Yamaha P-515 | Kawai K300 Previously: Yamaha DGX-660
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 Re: Digital pianos are overprized
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 274 |
Actually, I wouldn't want an acoustic piano even if I got a good one for free somehow. With my digital piano I can play using different voices if I want to -- not that I do very often but still, it's there when I want it. I was playing Bach on a sitar last night.  My piano is always in perfect tune, I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing), I can play with headphones if I don't want to bother anyone else, and I don't need three men and a small boy to to help me move it so I can dust behind it. And I can buy ten top-of-the-line digital pianos for the price of one top-of-the-line acoustic piano. +1 Good point! And you sit always on the "sweetspot" of the acoustic projection. And old saying of Sound engineers is: The worst place in the concert hall is in front of the Grand piano :-). And you can adapt your piano and room setting to the Music you are playing. Classic > no problem "Concert Grand and concert hall, Jazz? Also ok > Baby Grand, Cover closed, Room acoustics of an old Jazz Caffee "voila" :-) Galuwen
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