2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
76 members (Abdol, Beemer, Calavera, accordeur, Bruce In Philly, c++, ADWyatt, 19 invisible), 990 guests, and 546 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Sweelinck #2983226 05/24/20 10:45 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000?

The Bösendorfer doesn't have LINE OUT.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983227 05/24/20 10:47 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,376
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,376
Though it has serious TRS.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983229 05/24/20 10:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,477
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,477
$77,000 and it doesn’t even have a line out? This is a scam! grin

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
QuasiUnaFantasia #2983230 05/24/20 10:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451
U
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000?

How can a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright possibly be worth $77,000 when.a Fazioli F308 lists for just $224,600? smirk

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
MacMacMac #2983239 05/24/20 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't know about refrigerators in Switzerland, but over here refreigerators are easy to fix.

I'm an American that lives in Switzerland. Except for two good furnace repairmen, we've never had any service person of any value in the US. Our favorite is the dishwasher repairman that, once he had our washing machine in pieces on our back porch, admitted that he only received 10 days training.


Current: Kawai NV10, Reface CP
Previous: Kawai CA-95, Ensoniq KT-88, 1920's Upright
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Pete14 #2983242 05/24/20 11:01 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by Pete14
$77,000 and it doesn’t even have a line out? This is a scam! grin

Totally! It makes it almost worthless for gigging, or even just for bringing it over to a friends house for a jam session.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983243 05/24/20 11:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917
@PizzaGuy: Yes, there crappy repairman everywhere. And crappy piano tuners. And crappy doctors, too.
You just have to find a few good ones and stick with them.

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
U3piano #2983246 05/24/20 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 784
P
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 784
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000?

The Bösendorfer doesn't have LINE OUT.
Probably doesn't even have escapement, simulated or real, either...…

Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
How can a Kawai MP11SE possibly be worth $2,800 when a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright lists for only $77,000?

How can a Bosendorfer Concert 130 upright possibly be worth $77,000 when.a Fazioli F308 lists for just $224,600? smirk
Ah, but the Fazioli does have escapement - er, Ithink.


regards
Pete
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983256 05/24/20 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451
U
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,451
The mp11se has simulated feeling of escapement, the Bosendorfer has real escapement as does every acoustic piano.

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983282 05/24/20 12:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348
I don't get how criticizing the (in my opinion) excessively high price of pianos turns me into a communist. I myself buy and sell things every day, i work, i get paid, i pay. I have sense of what is approximately the value of the things and the cost of producing them. You pay for the materials, you pay labour, machines, buildings, you get all the expenses, you have it, simple marhs. No politics involved. It would be nice if someone from inside yamaha or Kawai or roland would tell us how much money they cost to get done 1 unit of any of their pianos. Of course that's not going to happen.

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983286 05/24/20 01:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,423
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,423
Ubu, apologies if you felt offended by my post (since I mentioned communism). My comment was rather generic and elaborated on QuasiUnaFantasia’s post that mentioned Marxism. I didn’t mean to sound like I’m referring to you. Many people seem to sometimes question what seems like high prices and by an extension it’s similar to how communism was supposed to solve these problems. It didn’t.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983288 05/24/20 01:07 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
I also did not imply that anyone is a Marxist, and I realize that the rather bold tone in my first post may have been too harsh.

The reason I mentioned Marxism is that it harbours the wrong idea that things (and services) have an intrinsic value regardless of what buyers and sellers think about it. This view is quite widespread, also among people who do in no way qualify as Marxists.

The view itself is still wrong though, beauty really does lie in the eye of the beholder.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983322 05/24/20 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 263
A
Full Member
Online Blank
Full Member
A
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 263
I disagree that today's digital pianos are over-priced. Although I haven't yet tested the Kawai CA79, the impression I have is that this is a fabulous DP with excellent tonal values, and action that the majority of players find quite satisfying. The rosewood-stained model is officially selling in the states for $4,100, and even if that price isn't bargained down I find it acceptable for what Kawai is offering.

But let's try to understand something here. A person is not just paying for the physical materials in a digital piano; the selling price charged also has to take into account research and development, which is not cheap. And in Kawai's case, a portion of the sale has to be sent to Onkyo, which is chiefly responsible for the speakers. And finally, unlike their acoustic counterparts (which are in no way inexpensive) there is a time limit that a digital piano can be offered at full retail to the buying public. That time limit is typically two to four years before new models are offered, cutting down on the salability of the current models. A company will not only have to recoup its costs, but make a large enough profit to continue in business.

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983324 05/24/20 02:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 348
Don't worry guys. No offense. We just chat here. You don't need to apologize as far as I'm concern.

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983336 05/24/20 02:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 453
O
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 453
I think that, back in the day when actions and sounds were pretty rubbish by today's standards, they were over-priced based on current expectations/perceptions.

The thing is, manufacturers shifted stock - people were willing to pay for them. So I guess they were priced correctly at the time... but I doubt anyone shopping for a DP now would even consider them.

Who knows, we may have the same opinions of our current crop of DPs in 20 years or so?

It also very much depends on which models we're talking about - flagship models do demand a disproportionately higher price than the mid-range DPs IMO.

Getting up to ££ hybrid territory (ie real action), would any of you not be inclined to buy an acoustic piano instead (living circumstances allowing)? I know that I would!

Last edited by OscarRamsey; 05/24/20 03:00 PM.

Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983343 05/24/20 03:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,126
F
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,126
Actually, I wouldn't want an acoustic piano even if I got a good one for free somehow.

With my digital piano I can play using different voices if I want to -- not that I do very often but still, it's there when I want it. I was playing Bach on a sitar last night. smile

My piano is always in perfect tune, I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing), I can play with headphones if I don't want to bother anyone else, and I don't need three men and a small boy to to help me move it so I can dust behind it.

And I can buy ten top-of-the-line digital pianos for the price of one top-of-the-line acoustic piano.


If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
Ubu #2983354 05/24/20 03:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,917
But does a top-of-the-line digital sound as good as even a bottom-of-the-line acoustic?

Re: Digital pianos are overprized
OscarRamsey #2983369 05/24/20 04:09 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
Getting up to ££ hybrid territory (ie real action), would any of you not be inclined to buy an acoustic piano instead (living circumstances allowing)? I know that I would!

I most certainly would prefer the acoustic over the hybrid. Here in Denmark it would be easy to find a used grand in fine condition at the same price as a new N1X or NV-10.

EDIT: I just checked a Danish website, where people advertise their stuff for sale, and today there was a Gaveau grand advertised for 267 EUR (abot 300 USD). Judging by the pictures, it is in good condition. But even allowing for quite a lot of work done to it, the price would still fall short of the price for a new hybrid.

Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 05/24/20 04:14 PM.

Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
FrankCox #2983382 05/24/20 04:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 121
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by FrankCox
I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing)

Imo, i think this is actually bad practice. I didn't realize this before but ever since i got an acoustic, I noticed I have shitty dynamics because there is no volume control knob. If you ever plan on playing on an acoustic, you should consider this a disadvantage not an advantage unless you play the digital at max volume control and leave the volume to your fingers.


Currently: Yamaha P-515 | Kawai K300
Previously: Yamaha DGX-660
Re: Digital pianos are overprized
FrankCox #2983391 05/24/20 04:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 274
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by FrankCox
Actually, I wouldn't want an acoustic piano even if I got a good one for free somehow.

With my digital piano I can play using different voices if I want to -- not that I do very often but still, it's there when I want it. I was playing Bach on a sitar last night. smile

My piano is always in perfect tune, I can play it loudly or softly depending on the volume setting (and still control the relative volume of what I'm playing), I can play with headphones if I don't want to bother anyone else, and I don't need three men and a small boy to to help me move it so I can dust behind it.

And I can buy ten top-of-the-line digital pianos for the price of one top-of-the-line acoustic piano.

+1

Good point! And you sit always on the "sweetspot" of the acoustic projection. And old saying of Sound engineers is: The worst place in the concert hall is in front of the Grand piano :-).

And you can adapt your piano and room setting to the Music you are playing. Classic > no problem "Concert Grand and concert hall, Jazz? Also ok > Baby Grand, Cover closed, Room acoustics of an old Jazz Caffee "voila" :-)

Galuwen

Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New Korg announcements in a few days...
by clothearednincompo - 01/15/21 12:17 PM
Estonia 190
by Walkman - 01/15/21 12:02 PM
My 'Gentle' and 'quieter' tuning technique
by Beemer - 01/15/21 10:46 AM
The Yamaha CFX ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 01/15/21 10:39 AM
Hello, I'm back.
by CarlosCC - 01/15/21 10:30 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,263
Posts3,046,923
Members100,063
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4