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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
PapaJohn #2982810 05/23/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PapaJohn
The N1X felt stiff, and a reset didn't help.The speakers were not good enough for me. To me, they sounded quite bad. Even if the store offered an even trade for my CA-95, I'd keep my CA-95. The Bosendorfer was really pathetic over headphones, as others have noted as well. I didn't like the acrylic keys either.

I don't like the acrylic keys on the N1X either. To me it gives the keys a cheap feeling.

The speaker system works OK with the internal sounds but suffers in tonal clarity with some VST's. Therefore, I augment them with external monitors.

The action (to me) feels like a good acoustic grand piano action compared to the acoustic grands I Play regularly.

God Bless,
David


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982814 05/23/20 12:56 PM
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I switched from ivory emulation in my ES7 to plain acrylic in NU1X and N1X. From purely tactile endpoint the fake ivory felt good and looked good. However I suddenly realized my fingers are not anymore caught occasionally by the keys (a sticky effect) and besides I can easily slide my finger onto a key I hold in order to change the arm position and prepare for finger swaps, etc. I prefer acrylic much more now.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2982828 05/23/20 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I switched from ivory emulation in my ES7 to plain acrylic in NU1X and N1X. From purely tactile endpoint the fake ivory felt good and looked good. However I suddenly realized my fingers are not anymore caught occasionally by the keys (a sticky effect) and besides I can easily slide my finger onto a key I hold in order to change the arm position and prepare for finger swaps, etc. I prefer acrylic much more now.

Maybe I'll appreciate it more if/when my playing becomes more advanced. I don't think I've had to use the techniques you've described in the basic music I've been playing. I like the more tactile feel of the MP11SE key tops better. However, I don't like that is showed wear marks more readily.

God Bless,
David


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Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Completed
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982830 05/23/20 01:37 PM
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Maybe something was wrong with the store's N1X then. Or my finger chemistry. They were super grippy.

Last edited by PapaJohn; 05/23/20 01:38 PM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982832 05/23/20 01:49 PM
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Wait, you’re saying the N1X was super grippy? But it doesn’t have fake ivory, so how could this be, I ask? grin

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982835 05/23/20 01:55 PM
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It’s a personal thing perhaps. Physiological even. Sweat quantity and chemistry...

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/23/20 01:57 PM.

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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982837 05/23/20 02:01 PM
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Yes! It is not a fixed state but rather a perceptive one. Sometimes my super-cheap second piano feels super grippy; other times it feels super slippery.
It was no different with the N2 I frequently played: sometimes I felt like a gecko on steroids; other times like a slimy lizard on skates!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982846 05/23/20 02:38 PM
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Yeah, it wasn't a good grip at all. I've been pretty consistent in preferring the ivory feel over the years. I was really really hoping it would be different today :-(


Current: Kawai NV10, Reface CP
Previous: Kawai CA-95, Ensoniq KT-88, 1920's Upright
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982891 05/23/20 04:46 PM
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Hm. I just realized, I did have to sanitize my hands as I walked in. Not the ideal time to be evaluating key feel :-/


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982941 05/23/20 06:16 PM
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@PapaJohn: How can you get a good grip on the piano keys if you've been handling pizza all day? smile
(Hmmm ... perhaps that doesn't make sense in your native Switzerland.)

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
PapaJohn #2982966 05/23/20 07:25 PM
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I had this issue that I tried to compensate for when I tried the NU1X. For me my hands are dryer than dry, naturally. When I used hand sanitizer at the store it really dried it out.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982968 05/23/20 07:40 PM
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Macmacmac: Ah, but I'm an American that lives in Switzerland. Better ingredients, better pizza! I would miss PapaJohn's, but my wife makes an amazing pizza. By chance, that's what we ate tonight. What I DO miss is Bojangles.

cgeronimo: This sanitizer was very watery. It didn't feel like normal sanitizer. My fingers felt normal, but whatever was in it could have easily thrown me off. I suspect it's more than that though, because I remember this playing a deciding role when I bought my CA-95.


Current: Kawai NV10, Reface CP
Previous: Kawai CA-95, Ensoniq KT-88, 1920's Upright
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2982974 05/23/20 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
To me it gives the keys a cheap feeling.

Agreed. I like the finish on the Kawai CA/MP pianos too. I haven't had any issues with wear on my CA-95. But, this could be highly dependent on body chemistry too. My wife has all sorts of trouble with metal and plastic that I just don't have. The armband of her Fitbit Versa has been her latest battle.

Originally Posted by David B
Therefore, I augment them with external monitors.

Thanks to your posts (and Osho), I knew that this might be required. So, I discussed that option with my wife a few days ago, and she wasn't a fan. I don't have a big man-cave like yours to build out my ideal instrument :-/

Originally Posted by David B
The action (to me) feels like a good acoustic grand piano action compared to the acoustic grands I Play regularly.

Yeah, to some degree we are all biased towards the aesthetic of our favorite acoustics. And our access to those wildly varies. For me it is the C3 my piano teacher had when I was in my late teens. The N2, N3, and N3X have all come really close to the tactile aesthetic of that piano. I suspect that if that piano had been acrylic, I'd probably be mad at Yamaha for putting ivorite on the N2 and N3 series :-)


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Pete14 #2983177 05/24/20 10:01 AM
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Quote
I wonder why they keep the N2 in the lineup

My guy in the big Vancouver dealership has been strongly connected with Yamaha for more than twenty-five years. I asked him the standard question about whether the N2 would be upgraded and he gave his version of the answer to your question. He said that the N2 continues to sell well in the US to institutions, and to students who have had recommendations about the N2 from their institutions. He heard that therefore Yamaha was content with the status quo, and would keep the N2 in the product lineup. That this for what it is worth.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
NormB #2983180 05/24/20 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by NormB
He said that the N2 continues to sell well in the US to institutions, and to students who have had recommendations about the N2 from their institutions.

IMO this makes it even more odd that they would not update the instrument. Were the N1 and N3 updated because they were NOT selling well, and is that the only time Yamaha updates their instruments?


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2983182 05/24/20 10:14 AM
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I don’t know what institutions or students Yamaha is talking about, but I maintain that the N1X is the better instrument (I did get to try it out).

My encounter with the N1X was brief, but I immediately realized this was the better instrument (this is just my opinion, etc...).

The connection was superb, and there was no sense of limitations in terms of dynamics; especially as it relates to playing soft (PP). The instrument is more imposing aesthetically, and other than overall volume (the N2 is louder), it is in no way inferior in the speaker department despite having less......speakers.

The pull the N2 has is mostly based on specs: “Oh, it has more speakers, ivorite, TRS, the lid opens up, and it also costs 2K more, so it truly must be better than the N1X”.

In reality, the N1X is the better instrument! (Do I need to say it again? this is simply my opinion)!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
PapaJohn #2983254 05/24/20 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PapaJohn
Originally Posted by David B
Therefore, I augment them with external monitors.

Thanks to your posts (and Osho), I knew that this might be required. So, I discussed that option with my wife a few days ago, and she wasn't a fan. I don't have a big man-cave like yours to build out my ideal instrument :-/

I don’t know if you are referring to space limitations being a consideration, but depending on your setup it’s possible to use monitors that don’t add too much to the N1X footprint.

[Linked Image]


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
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VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2983453 05/24/20 09:52 PM
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I've got my new N1X coming Tuesday. I've done as few rough measurements and the place I would really like it to go might require that it go around a few corners on its side on a dolly. Has anyone out there done that without any subsequent problems with the piano?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2983470 05/24/20 11:32 PM
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I live in a 3rd floor apartment. We carried the N1X up two flights of stairs using a dolly. It was tilted 45 degrees on the way up, and was on its side as we rested and caught our breath on the landing. We then had to put it on its side to fit it through the front door and again in the hallway and door to the room where I play. It may not be recommended but the piano seemed to do fine. Plays great! It came in two separate boxes which made it easier.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2984551 05/27/20 10:41 AM
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Well, my new N1X arrived yesterday and I have to say that I am already quite pleased with it. And even after such a short while I also see more clearly some ways in which it diverges a bit from an acoustic grand. Overall, the action is really, really nice. Moreover, I find that the action and sensing electronics work together really well—so well that I can play more softly on this thing than I ever could on an acoustic grand.

I will say that my first impressions playing at home are that the action doesn’t feel absolutely the same as on an acoustic grand (AG from here on). This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In fact, the one really spooky thing about the N1X here is how absolutely uniform every single one of the 88 keys plays just like the one next to it. Every AG I have played on had not so subtle variations from note to note, usually perhaps the result of imperfect regulation and wear. This is a good thing, but spooky; I have never even played a showroom AG that was so uniform. Another thing that I noticed is neither good nor bad IMHO: in contrast to AGs, you can’t feel the jack reset on the knuckle, which on the AG also corresponds to the hammer releasing from the backcheck with considerable force. I can’t see that it affect my pathetic playing, but it is definitely different. Perhaps the N1X hammers are not holding quite the same level of energy when held by the backcheck as do AG hammers after their rebound from the strings. The third thing that I noticed about the action being different I don’t like, although it is a very minor point. On AGs the bass hammers are of course heavier than those in the treble section. But more importantly, when playing quickly they have much more inertia. I don’t feel this difference on the N1X. The key weight is of course greater in the bass section, but the inertia isn’t much greater. It is as if perhaps Yamaha compensated for lighter hammers than an AG by using more lead weights in the keys. But in any case this minor difference is one I notice, but does not affect playing in any way that I can see.

I like the sound, too. My only qualification here is that I do wish that Yamaha had put in speakers that could better capture the low notes, which don’t match an AG in power. As a connected issue, it would have been nice to have added an internal equalizer. I have also found that the sound projects differently than on an AG. I have the N1X against a wall in a 4 x 10 meter room. When I was playing at a level I thought mimicked what I would hear playing an AG my audience of one 3 meters away thought that things were ‘too loud’.

I DO HAVE A QUESTION: can anyone with an N1X actually hear that the una corda pedal is actually doing anything?

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