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My dude won't come.
#2982999 05/23/20 10:16 PM
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Looks like I'll have to DIY this year. Only my Upright needs it, the humidity's come in.

I am aware not cheaping out on the hammer / socket would go a long way.

Is there a recommended software/ microphone/ kit/ tool brand for DIY ?

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/23/20 10:21 PM.
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Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983006 05/23/20 11:09 PM
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If you are not already a bit experienced on using the hammer I wouldn't suggest a whole tuning.
Just maybe try to tune some disturbing out of tune unisons for now.

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983013 05/24/20 12:00 AM
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There is PianoMeter for Android. TuneLab has an eval version for iPhone\iPad and Windows. I got a decent hammer\mute kit from Howard Piano supply.

Re: My dude won't come.
Hakki #2983020 05/24/20 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
If you are not already a bit experienced on using the hammer I wouldn't suggest a whole tuning.
Just maybe try to tune some disturbing out of tune unisons for now.

Thx for the caution Hakki, I'm not worried about screwing it up, it's part of the learning I'm willing to do.

Do you have a recommended microphone for these apps, should I use a usb sound card on the PC, or some other microphone setup.

How do I ensure the Mic I'm getting is neutral in terms of response.

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983025 05/24/20 01:10 AM
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I use Pianometer on my phone, and a cheap Miriamsong tuning lever off Amazon. It holds the pins tight and I've never had any problems with slippage. Pianometer is easy to use, calculates the stretch for you, and is pretty accurate. I also find it easier to do chip tuning with a guitar pic, where you pick each string by itself, rather than having to use mutes. Usually chip tuning to 2-3 cents sharp, then a few hard blows on the key gets the string to settle nicely in tune.


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Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983033 05/24/20 01:27 AM
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PianoMeter and TuneLab have a calibration feature if you feel its mic isn't true. I've had a RPT use TuneLab and another use PianoMeter and both just used the built in mic on their smartphone or tablet.

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983035 05/24/20 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Hakki
If you are not already a bit experienced on using the hammer I wouldn't suggest a whole tuning.
Just maybe try to tune some disturbing out of tune unisons for now.

Thx for the caution Hakki, I'm not worried about screwing it up, it's part of the learning I'm willing to do.

Do you have a recommended microphone for these apps, should I use a usb sound card on the PC, or some other microphone setup.

How do I ensure the Mic I'm getting is neutral in terms of response.

A professional tuning app installed on your iPhone/iPad/iPodTouch is all you need. No need and worry about an external mic. The built-in mic on your iPhone/iPad/iPodTouch will do just fine.

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983056 05/24/20 02:07 AM
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Some info here:
https://signalessence.com/can-you-u...coustic-testing-and-accurate-recordings/

Honestly, this will be the least of your worries at first. Get a decent hammer and some mutes, then learn to set pins and tune a clean unison that has some stability.


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Re: My dude won't come.
TBell #2983064 05/24/20 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TBell
PianoMeter and TuneLab have a calibration feature if you feel its mic isn't true. I've had a RPT use TuneLab and another use PianoMeter and both just used the built in mic on their smartphone or tablet.

Is it possible that they're not too picky about it because they have their skills to fall back on and know what discrepancies to listen for in their routine ?

From my end, without such experience, would a better electronics setup make for less guesswork as a beginner ?

I own an iphone 5 and 8, but I hesitate to trust them, as I've drop the darn things quite often back in their day.

I'm quite ready to throw money at this problem, I'd rather pay my tuner-Guy, but it seems he won't be available for possibly a long time.

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/24/20 02:59 AM.
Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983066 05/24/20 03:02 AM
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You can definitely trust your iPhone.
Just load the app and give it a try. You will see.

BTW hold your phone in landscape orientation.

Last edited by Hakki; 05/24/20 03:06 AM.
Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983071 05/24/20 03:35 AM
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You can PM me for assistance.

But again, if you have not at least tuned your unisons before and know how manipulate the tuning hammer I don't recommend doing this yourself.
You might harm the tuning pins, pinblock. Ruin the stability of strings.

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983077 05/24/20 04:36 AM
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I second everyone's comments - your smartphone or iPhone will be absolutely fine; there is no need at all to agonise over that, or think of buying external mics etc.

The main challenge will be in learning to manipulate the tuning lever, to get the 'feel' of it. It's a thing which some have tried, and have quickly given up, because it's tricky. But stick with it! The movements involved are generally very small and extremely subtle, requiring great control. If you are making big movements with the lever, you're on the wrong tuning pin!

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983078 05/24/20 04:40 AM
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What is it that you don‘t trust your phone mic to do correctly? Any noncalibrated mic will have trouble to capture power levels correctly. Also there might be phase shifts. But the frequency will be fine, even for a cheap mic. Being linear, mics do not change the frequency.
In case you are skeptical about the frequency, try measuring your phone app against one other known frequency. If this frequency is fine, the other frequencies will then be fine as well.


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Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983129 05/24/20 08:20 AM
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Unfortunately PianoMeter is only available for Android at the moment. Since it doesn't require the latest hardware, your best option would probably be to buy an older cheap Android phone such as a OnePlus 3 or Google Pixel 2.

Your major investment should be a decent tuning hammer in the first place. Its fit on the pins is one thing, but its mass is just as important, because only then will you get a good feeling for those minimal adjustments necessary for a clean and stable tuning.

Re: My dude won't come.
OE1FEU #2983132 05/24/20 08:24 AM
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Fortunately there are options for iPhone as well.

Re: My dude won't come.
Hakki #2983140 05/24/20 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Fortunately there are options for iPhone as well.

Unfortunately their developers are not active in this forum, give advice and help and listen to suggstions for improvement and feature requests.

Re: My dude won't come.
OE1FEU #2983148 05/24/20 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Originally Posted by Hakki
Fortunately there are options for iPhone as well.

Unfortunately their developers are not active in this forum, give advice and help and listen to suggstions for improvement and feature requests.

I believe Hakki is referring to his app, listed in their signature. He is very present here.
Hakki— what is the actual app purchase price when you want to upgrade out of the trial version?

Robert Scott from Tunelab pops in from time to time, I think he just posted here a few days ago. The developer of Verituner, not so much, however Ron Koval is a real expert with this software and very willing to offer tips. I’ve never seen the developer of iRCT here, but that wouldn’t stop me from buying it if I had the money and enough interest.


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Re: My dude won't come.
terminaldegree #2983156 05/24/20 09:18 AM
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The free version is fully functional and IMO, waiting a couple of minutes after a number of notes is changed will not bother a DIY person.

If one (probably a professional) however wants to get rid of those pauses US$ 99.99 is the upgrade price.

Re: My dude won't come.
Emery Wang #2983187 05/24/20 10:32 AM
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The software calculates based on the current state of the piano,

If the piano requires a pitch pull, <if it's really out of tune>, Do you have to rescan/record, then let it recalculate ?

Re: My dude won't come.
jeffcat #2983205 05/24/20 11:03 AM
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If the piano requires a pitch correction of some significance, the over pull function compensates for the settling of each string so that the piano is close enough to fine-tune on the second pass. For me, followed by a third quick pass, completely by ear to check that the unisons haven’t drifted, along with octaves and progressive intervals, and then a test piece in a couple different keys.

The software has usually already figured out what it needs to know on the initial “hearing” of sampled notes. Some sample every note, others sample as few as 3 notes in different registers.


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