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My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
#2981561 05/20/20 09:44 AM
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Then Czerny, Liszt, Stavenhagen and on up to my teacher (Peabody grad) John M.E. Hasslinger.
Interesting article by an old acquaintance.

John Mason Evans Hasslinger's Famous Piano Teacher Precursors

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981581 05/20/20 10:18 AM
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's also true of quite of few of us. In my case, the lineage of two of my three teachers goes back to Beethoven. Chopin is also in the mix for one of those teachers. For my second teacher, the lineage goes like this, starting with Liszt: Alfred Reisenauer, Clarence Adler, Francisco Aybar, me. For my third teacher, it's Liszt, Theodore Ritter, Isidore Philipp, George Armstrong, me. Isidore Philipp also studied with Georges Mathias, a pupil of Chopin.

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Hank M #2981594 05/20/20 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hank M
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's also true of quite of few of us. In my case, the lineage of two of my three teachers goes back to Beethoven. Chopin is also in the mix for one of those teachers. For my second teacher, the lineage goes like this, starting with Liszt: Alfred Reisenauer, Clarence Adler, Francisco Aybar, me. For my third teacher, it's Liszt, Theodore Ritter, Isidore Philipp, George Armstrong, me. Isidore Philipp also studied with Georges Mathias, a pupil of Chopin.
Yep, it's true. My lineage (not quite so impressively diverse as Hank's!): Beethoven, Czerny, Liszt, Bernhard Stavenhagen, Ludovika von Kaan, Alfred Brendel, Imogen Cooper, me.


SRF
Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981623 05/20/20 11:26 AM
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I had two teachers that could trace back to Beethoven - while it's a cool thing to drop into a conversation, it doesn't really mean much. I think it says more about the fact that learning to play the piano is still something that is passed on from teacher to student.

Sam

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981628 05/20/20 11:34 AM
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I had wondered if anyone would be interested in a piano genealogy project. But I suspected virtually everyone would trace back to a Beethoven or other. So it's not very interesting.

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
wszxbcl #2981657 05/20/20 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wszxbcl
I had wondered if anyone would be interested in a piano genealogy project. But I suspected virtually everyone would trace back to a Beethoven or other. So it's not very interesting.

Not only is it not very interesting, I find it rather meaningless. What point is there to the listing of this so-called "lineage"? There is no proof that any principles of teaching or interpretation are carried from a teacher to a student/teacher to the next student/teacher. One may well indeed refute the teachings of his/her previous teacher and set out on a track of his/her own, thus breaking the reputed continuity. It's at the level of cocktail conversation and, as such, pianist lineage doesn't mean much.

Regards,


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Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981709 05/20/20 01:29 PM
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My last piano teacher's lineage goes back to Prince Albert, Queen Victoria, and........their good friend Felix thumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGbBFsiuzc


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981712 05/20/20 01:39 PM
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I agree that the lineage itself isn't necessarily important, but I do like the connection you make with teachers. Once, my teacher was reminiscing fondly of her first teacher, and was telling me about her. She stopped, saying "I don't want to bore you" and I said, "keep going! I want to hear more about my piano grandmother." I like to think of it that way!

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
BruceD #2981716 05/20/20 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hank M
Sorry to burst your bubble.....

(Hi!) smile

I didn't think he was indicating any bubble, just enjoying the thing!
As I do too.

Originally Posted by BruceD
Not only is it not very interesting, I find it rather meaningless. What point is there to the listing of this so-called "lineage"? There is no proof that any principles of teaching or interpretation....

Just goes to show, diff'rent strokes.....

I find it (and feel it) extremely interesting, and therefore meaningful on that count even if on none other.

BTW, we've done this a couple of times before. Here's one of them:

Old old thread

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981717 05/20/20 01:49 PM
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I know something I think is pretty cool about my musical lineage. My Hungarian great great grandfather was the private drummer for Emperor Franz Joseph! It was his job to wake the emperor each morning by playing his drums. Because he was Jewish and therefore kosher, his wife had to accompany him when the emperor traveled so she could prepare her husband's meals. The story told my beloved grandmother, in the Hungarian accent she never lost, goes like this: "One day, they were under attack! Everyone was fleeing including your great, great, grandmother who had sewn her jewels and valuables into the hem of her skirt for safekeeping." My grandmother's voice would rise with glee and her eyes would get big as she said, "She tripped on her hem and as she was falling, a branch PLUCKED OUT HER EYE!!! When she awoke, her valuables were all gone!" Then Grandma would grin at our horrified reactions. Grandma Pepi was the best grandmother ever and I still miss her terribly.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
BruceD #2981730 05/20/20 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
It's at the level of cocktail conversation and, as such, pianist lineage doesn't mean much.
I agree. But as cocktail conversations go, this one's more interesting than most.


SRF
Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
SiFi #2981772 05/20/20 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by BruceD
It's at the level of cocktail conversation and, as such, pianist lineage doesn't mean much.
I agree. But as cocktail conversations go, this one's more interesting than most.

Top 1 percentile. smile

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Mark_C #2981853 05/20/20 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by BruceD
It's at the level of cocktail conversation and, as such, pianist lineage doesn't mean much.
I agree. But as cocktail conversations go, this one's more interesting than most.

Top 1 percentile. smile
More like top 0.666666 recurring percentile.


SRF
Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
SiFi #2981949 05/20/20 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by BruceD
It's at the level of cocktail conversation and, as such, pianist lineage doesn't mean much.
I agree. But as cocktail conversations go, this one's more interesting than most.

Top 1 percentile. smile
More like top 0.666666 recurring percentile.

Well, gee, guys; truth be told, I've never even been to a cocktail party where anyone talks about piano, let alone piano lineage, so what do I really know about cocktail conversation? I guess I have to get out more, but not just yet, of course! Movements seems somewhat restricted, don't they?

Cheers!


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Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981967 05/21/20 01:00 AM
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My teachers were young when I studied from them, and some of their teachers are still around and are making or have made YouTube vids. It's interesting to see and hear certain characteristics, repertoire choices, and technical approaches that "trickled down." It also may account for why I disagree with certain kinds of playing which don't seem to be in my "musical DNA." One of my teacher's theory teachers in music school wrote a textbook, and I can see elements of her own theory teaching in that book.

Now, here comes the BUT. But knowing all this only helps so much, and one's own experiences and hard work are the most important thing. And yet, researching teacher genealogy going on back to Beethoven is fascinating as you ponder that teachers have for centuries been saying, "Don't rush!" laugh


WhoDwaldi
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Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2981971 05/21/20 01:21 AM
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I can trace my piano lineage to Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, and J.S. Bach. Ha ha ha ha ha. So can almost everybody else who studied piano with somebody who studied with somebody. But my most immediate piano grandmother is Dorothy Taubman, and her ideas make up about 80% of what I teach.


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Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
BruceD #2981975 05/21/20 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Well, gee, guys; truth be told, I've never even been to a cocktail party where anyone talks about piano, let alone piano lineage, so what do I really know about cocktail conversation? I guess I have to get out more, but not just yet, of course!....

I've never been to one at all ha except (1) under duress, in which case I basically don't talk to anybody, or (2) if it happens to be part of some good larger thing -- LIKE AN AMATEUR COMPETITION!

Moral of the story: You gotta go to some of those competitions. smile

At the cocktail parties at those events (more like get-togethers than parties, cocktail or otherwise), you'll find lots of talk like this and about all other manner of things piano.

P.S. Unrelated, really, but....Besides that I don't "drink," I have a basic problem with cocktail parties anyway, which is that my ear (both of them actually, but let's talk about them in the singular) grin is almost completely incapable of hearing a voice in the midst of a din. I can sort of do it, albeit limitedly, but even doing it just limitedly, the din is so noxious that I can't take it for very long. It does to me what kryptonite does to Superman, not that I have any other similarities to Superman.

I had an epiphany about this at a big party, 50th birthday party of a friend. I had thought that my withdrawing at big parties was because of some kind of social discomfort, but at this thing I suddenly realized that more basically it was something else -- not that I don't have some of that, but it seemed way out of proportion. I realized that it was mainly that DINS are so noxious to me that what happens in me, automatically, is that my hearing sort of turns itself off, to avoid the auditory input. And so, the problem about hearing any conversation is that I have to undo that turning-off, which renews the noxious din -- but my automatic tendency keeps on wanting to shut off my hearing again, which makes it a struggle to hear what someone is saying. My hearing keeps wanting to shut itself off.

I promise you, it makes sense to me anyway. ha
As you might guess, not infrequently I've had to leave events because of the noise level, or at least to keep taking breaks and going outside. Or to go to my car and get earplugs (which I always keep there).

So, maybe forget "cocktail parties" altogether, and let's look at what's interesting to talk about, at all.
I find piano teacher lineage very interesting to talk about. smile
And if you go to the right places, you'll find things like that being talked about.

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Hank M #2981977 05/21/20 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Hank M
Sorry to burst your bubble, but....

P.S. Hey Hank -- look what's on that other thread!! smile

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Mark_C #2982035 05/21/20 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Hank M
Sorry to burst your bubble, but....

P.S. Hey Hank -- look what's on that other thread!! smile

Mark, you caught me! Telling the same story twice is a clear sign of old age. On the other hand, that was ten years ago (and I did subsequently get more info on Clarence Adler), so maybe I get a pass. smile

Re: My piano teacher lineage goes back to Beethoven
Ellsounds #2982100 05/21/20 09:35 AM
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My grandmother made a chart showing our lineage to Czerny and Beethoven too. Do a little math and the reach is enormous.

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