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Re: You guys are infectious
Gombessa #2981163 05/19/20 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Hopefully people can tell here that we're not (wholly) just derailing the thread, we're just poking a bit of fun at ourselves.
🍻 I was gonna say something around these lines, after I brought my infamous "why digital piano actions are BAD" thread into the limelight again laugh And thought some poor souls might get trapped again in that dead spiral of snobbery and word misuse I'm infamous for laugh

Anyway, I remember somebody asked me after I've owned the NU1X for a month, how I did feel about it having extremely short pivot length. And I realized I hadn't even noticed until then. I don't think it has ever affected my playing and I tend to play often close to the board.

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/19/20 12:32 PM.

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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981165 05/19/20 12:39 PM
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Not much bank in the buck of a long pivot when the shank is cracked.

I jest, I do like Kawai. In fact, I plan on keeping my CA-95 when my new N(TBD)X arrives.


Current: Kawai NV10, Reface CP
Previous: Kawai CA-95, Ensoniq KT-88, 1920's Upright
Re: You guys are infectious
Gombessa #2981172 05/19/20 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
IMO, an objectively "short" pivot length such as the NU1X can feel easier to play and more realistic than a longer pivot length action such as a Yamaha GH or Roland PHA-50.

Are you saying it’s not the size that matters, but more how it’s used?

Re: You guys are infectious
CyberGene #2981173 05/19/20 12:55 PM
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This is called marketing ...
Originally Posted by CyberGene
How come a Steinway that's 5cm longer than NV10 is considered "Medium" and the NV10 is "Long"?!
It's also known as bullcrud.

BS is everywhere. I opened a box of Cheerios a few days ago. It was marked LARGE SIZE. But it's the smallest size I've ever seen.

Small is the new large. And bull is the new crap. And none of that is really new, is it?

Re: You guys are infectious
Pete14 #2981176 05/19/20 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Are you saying it’s not the size that matters, but more how it’s used?

I wouldn't believe that, it's just something people with short pivot lengths say..

Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981183 05/19/20 01:26 PM
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Wow, just one more thing to be depressed about... my short pivot (P-515).
But one day, U3piano, one day I will have the biggest pivot in town: a huge D, Steinway D!

Re: You guys are infectious
Pete14 #2981210 05/19/20 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
You joke, jeffcat, but this ‘infection’ is very real and has already cost me too much!

When I first visited this place I had no idea about long/short pivots and their so-called effect on playability. Sampling vs. Physical modeling? (what the heck is that). Looping, short decay, stretching, low velocity count, folded action bad, escapement fake, new piano around the corner, digital pianos suck, etc.......

I kid you not, before I came here I did not care about any of this. I would buy a new piano only if my old one broke beyond repair. NAMM? what the heck is that, I used to think.

Fast forward to today, and no matter how much I like my piano, I have to upgrade every two years (or sooner) because, you know, Gombessa says there’s something new out there with better speakers!

I check into this infectious place everyday (giddy with excitement) waiting for Kawai James to announce something new, or for some member to have a link to paradise, or for at least some speculation on the next big thing. Needless to say, I rarely come across any of this, and my initial excitement turns into depression. But why? I ask. Why can’t I just be happy with what I have and simply sit down and practice.......

10 minutes later, I’m back here again; and round and round we go! frown

YOU ARE DESCRIBING ME!

My Yamaha P-120S was making me sad with a couple of busted keys. Well, I got those fixed for $20. And then a friend got a console DP. And I thought, hey, it's been 15 years! There must be something new.

A few thousand clicks spent obsessively checking this forum later, dozens of hours of YT reviews later, and quite a hit to the bank account later, I have a new CA79.

AND I'M STILL CHECKING THE FORUM - daily - also "giddy with excitement" for the same reasons! Oooh VSL you say? I have computers! How much more money can I spend on libraries?! Which one is "THE BEST"?! Hahaha!


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: You guys are infectious
Gombessa #2981220 05/19/20 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Ugh, I would love to agree with you, but I just checked the official table:

Code
Official PW pivot length table
----------------------------------

Short                                  Medium                                           Long
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NU1X (18cm)
NV5 (??)
     N1X/N3X (23cm)
                                     Steinway Model D (31cm)
                                                                                  NV-10 (26cm)

Hmm, a troubling thought just occurred to me, only you know where the Cybrid lies. The ultimate dark horse candidate!

Official Table! Where can I find that (please)?


regards
Pete
Re: You guys are infectious
petebfrance #2981238 05/19/20 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by petebfrance
Official Table! Where can I find that (please)?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2852613/2.html


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981247 05/19/20 03:56 PM
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As Excellent as this Pivot Table may be, it's not the final Word. Someone made a Powerful Point that pivot length is OneNote to make about the piano, and my Outlook is that we shouldn't look at that alone when we have Access to a whole range of opinions and expertise here.

Publisher.

Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981269 05/19/20 04:41 PM
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So the Vibe is it just has to be, Long-Enough ? yes ? but not necessarily the Longest ?

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/19/20 04:41 PM.
Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981280 05/19/20 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
So the Vibe is it just has to be, Long-Enough ? yes ? but not necessarily the Longest ?

I think so, but what is long enough depends on the person, I feel no need for anything like the pivot length of a large grand though of course I would not say no to being given a large grand.

I don’t think I would like less than 22cm which is the length of the action in a Roland FP-90. That felt acceptable.

Last edited by KevinM; 05/19/20 05:08 PM. Reason: Added units.
Re: You guys are infectious
Abdol #2981284 05/19/20 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by petebfrance
Official Table! Where can I find that (please)?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2852613/2.html
Thanks. I remember that thread! However, I was hoping that there was a new list somewhere or other. Anyway, I've copied bits of it - will no doubt end up very confused, though.


regards
Pete
Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981290 05/19/20 05:32 PM
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Wow, this pivot obsession is real! We even have ‘official tables’, judges, and connoisseurs.

Next thing you know, and we’ll be having an annual Pivot-CON; where we all proudly display our pivots and such!

Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981293 05/19/20 05:40 PM
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I look towards DIY-ers for something more free-style, like a monster-pivot competition. First some warm-ups like crushing regular pivots with a monster one. And then direct battles.

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/19/20 05:41 PM.

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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981297 05/19/20 05:45 PM
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I suppose that my Casio PX-870's keys may possibly have one of the shortest pivot lengths, (I recall someone on here making that statement) but honestly, to me it's all pretty much nonsense. I have not even once, in almost 7 months of playing this instrument daily, ever had even the slightest issue with the pivot length having a negative effect on my playing. (and I do play quite far back on the black keys!) I'll never understand why folks will make such a big deal over something that is so not a big deal. I mean, I'm admittedly pretty picky, but come on now.

I suspect that my opinion might not make me too many friends on here, but while others tirelessly debate (argue?) the pros and cons of "pivot length", I'll just keep myself occupied and content by playing some lovely music on my very nice, affordable digital piano!

Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981299 05/19/20 05:46 PM
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Count me in for the very first ‘Monster-Pivot’ competition, CG.

I’d like to officially challenge U3piano to a monster battle (once I get my huge D).
There’s no way on earth his puny U3 will hold up to my monster D! grin

Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981303 05/19/20 05:53 PM
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That’s a pivotal monstrosity! 🐲


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: You guys are infectious
jeffcat #2981307 05/19/20 05:59 PM
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laugh

Re: You guys are infectious
camperbc #2981310 05/19/20 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by camperbc
I suppose that my Casio PX-870's keys may possibly have one of the shortest pivot lengths, (I recall someone on here making that statement) but honestly, to me it's all pretty much nonsense. I have not even once, in almost 7 months of playing this instrument daily, ever had even the slightest issue with the pivot length having a negative effect on my playing. (and I do play quite far back on the black keys!) I'll never understand why folks will make such a big deal over something that is so not a big deal. I mean, I'm admittedly pretty picky, but come on now.

I suspect that my opinion might not make me too many friends on here, but while others tirelessly debate (argue?) the pros and cons of "pivot length", I'll just keep myself occupied and content by playing some lovely music on my very nice, affordable digital piano!

Not at all.

My feeling is players with long experience and deep skill like yourself are able to deal with tools that are not the best ones for the job without even noticing.

Whereas weaker players like myself struggle to achieve the sensitivity of touch required to provide the desired dynamics. I could always wait until I have those skills, but I prefer to better enjoy my playing now. So rather than complain about my tools I bought better tools so I can better enjoy my playing now.

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