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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Khavens #2981026 05/19/20 05:54 AM
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Dear all, and @Khavens:

I am having kind of the same issue with my new CA79: the sound is not fully clean! I was already wondering why nobody was writing about it right away, maybe some do not regognize it?

For sure not a screw that’s loose.. that would have been easily localized, the noise comes in my case from both speakers, I hear it clearly (like in your audio examples):
- when I play with that volume you described (it is louder when I turn volume up, but also recognizable with middle volume) and
- playing at least forte/ff, at peaks or more complex parts
- no VT settings can help me so far

It sounds like the speakers can not deal with the range of frequency or dynamic (especially high velocity).. or maybe it is a transistor problem??

I asked about the problem in the music store and they confirmed that ALL instruments, which they installed, have that kind of noise, both CA-79 and CA-99. It is more like a rattle in the lower register and more like a lighter white noise in the upper register.

Some say, well, the sound is so well recorded by Kawai... that it should be like this (!?) because this would come through the highest resolution, but I can not believe that at all (I don't hear it with headphones duh (AKG 712)).
I really hope for a solution, if anybody knows what to do and how to fix it that would be a such a relief!!

It is such a beautiful instrument, but the noise is kind of distracting and it is Kind of holding me already back from playing fortissimo...

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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Ryner #2981053 05/19/20 07:50 AM
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Hi Folks,

I am back after hours and hours, day after day of playing *Joy*.

Good News: Disturbing sounds from my keyboard did'nt came back :-).

Also disturbing noise or some sort of rattle of any kind.

Just plain, rich and wonderful concert piano sound :-).

I positionioned my CA99 approx. 30cm away from my wall of massive granit stone.

But beware this "beast" ;-) can become loud when turned up....Woahaa..and can bite a bit in the upper middle range...a bit like the Yamaha Studio Grand in the Conservatory....if resonances ate fully turned up (and bad player like me overdid it :-)).

Really love the sound.

Galuwen

Last edited by Galuwen; 05/19/20 07:51 AM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981058 05/19/20 08:03 AM
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So:
• through the speakers - there is rattle
• through headphones - no rattle
If it is really true, then the problem is not in the samples and not in the sound generation/modelling. Especially if the rattle is present with different pianos with different rendering type.
It must be either in the speakers or in the final stages of amplification driving those speakers but not used for headphones.

Still, it would be interesting also to test through the speakers an outside piano routed back to CA79/CA99.
From a software piano, from another digital piano/keyboard, from some piano midi module box (GEM RP-X, Dexibell VIVO SX7, V3 Sound Grand Pianos XXL, etc.)
The rattle should be present. If not - even more confusing.

Also, is there an equalizer in CA79/99 allowing to narrow down what frequencies are causing this rattle?
I think, at least some equalizer-like settings are available to tweak.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981115 05/19/20 10:58 AM
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Man this sucks. I sympathize with y'all having issues. The CA79/CA99 are expensive DPs and to have these issues very early in ownership is no bueno. Kawai needs to step up their QC as these are not $500 pianos.

I hope a solution is found, sincerely.


Currently: Yamaha P-515 | Kawai K300
Previously: Yamaha DGX-660
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981131 05/19/20 11:30 AM
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Groan.
#1. It's not about QC.
#2: When it comes to quality a $500 piano ought to be no different than a $4000 piano.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Ryner #2981164 05/19/20 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryner
Dear all, and @Khavens:

I am having kind of the same issue with my new CA79: the sound is not fully clean! I was already wondering why nobody was writing about it right away, maybe some do not regognize it?

For sure not a screw that’s loose.. that would have been easily localized, the noise comes in my case from both speakers, I hear it clearly (like in your audio examples):
- when I play with that volume you described (it is louder when I turn volume up, but also recognizable with middle volume) and
- playing at least forte/ff, at peaks or more complex parts
- no VT settings can help me so far

It sounds like the speakers can not deal with the range of frequency or dynamic (especially high velocity).. or maybe it is a transistor problem??

I asked about the problem in the music store and they confirmed that ALL instruments, which they installed, have that kind of noise, both CA-79 and CA-99. It is more like a rattle in the lower register and more like a lighter white noise in the upper register.

Some say, well, the sound is so well recorded by Kawai... that it should be like this (!?) because this would come through the highest resolution, but I can not believe that at all (I don't hear it with headphones duh (AKG 712)).
I really hope for a solution, if anybody knows what to do and how to fix it that would be a such a relief!!

It is such a beautiful instrument, but the noise is kind of distracting and it is Kind of holding me already back from playing fortissimo...

I can totally understand what you are saying, because when I use some VSTs such as VSL D274 or Pianoteq pro Bechstein, it will also appear on my CA98 tweeters. Especially the D6 note.
In fact, this phenomenon will not only appear in the CA series, I have tried to directly connect some speakers, and many of their tweeters will appear similar situations.
Especially in the case of large dynamics and FF higer velocity, I think it is a kind of horn distortion, especially in the case of high sensitivity speakers. I later attached a pair of vintage Tannoy CPA5 coaxial speakers to my CA98 and had no problem.

However, since I need the middle and low tones of the soundboard, I have to continue to use the audio system of DP, but now I really want to disconnect the tweeters in my CA98, or maybe the other full range spks inside.

Last edited by robinlb; 05/19/20 12:38 PM.

CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981205 05/19/20 02:31 PM
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Besides many unfortunate negative experiences with the CA 79 / 99 I would like to share some positive feedback as well.
Most of the time when a product is working great we don't review it and if there are problems they pop up in the forums.
I really feel bad for everybody who has a problem with their digital pianos, especially at this price range, it's so frustrating frown

BUT I also wanted to say my CA 79 PE is working sooooo good and sounds so good, too.
Man I had a CA 98 in the U.S. and now I own a CA 79 and I like the sound much better. I always felt the CA 98 felt "nosy" / "boxy"
The CA 79 has first of all so much power, it sounds really really good on speakers! And on my Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm it sounds really amazing. Hard to believe that one is playing a digital piano with the feel and sound.

Anyways, I wanted to share some love for the new CA 79 series *knock on wood* - I hope it stays this positive for many years, as I only got it for a month.

Wish you all best of luck and happy playing <3

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
MacMacMac #2981311 05/19/20 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Groan.
#1. It's not about QC.
#2: When it comes to quality a $500 piano ought to be no different than a $4000 piano.

#1 Why do you think it's not about QC? I mean we don't know what the root cause is yet but based on the fact that not everyone with a CA79/99 is reporting issues, it can't be attributed to a design flaw yet.
#2 In a perfect world yes, a $500 piano will have the same attention paid to it during manufacturing as a $4000 piano but we don't live in a perfect world. Now, i am not making any unfounded accusations against Kawai. All i'm saying is, if someone is paying $4000 for a piano, they shouldn't be having these issues right out of the gate. Maybe it's just a bad batch.

My K300 was shown a lot of attention. I recently found a certificate hanging inside the piano by a Mr. J Nakamura who inspected and certified it to be good to go smile.


Currently: Yamaha P-515 | Kawai K300
Previously: Yamaha DGX-660
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981330 05/19/20 06:44 PM
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I raised the #1 item because there is a broad misunderstanding about the term "quality control".
It's often taken to be synonymous with "incoming inspection of parts" and "outgoing inspection of finished goods".

But that's inadequate. Quality comes from attention to every facet of a company's activities.
So a product defect ought not be attributed to a QC problem. Just call it a defect.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
lovelovemale #2981431 05/20/20 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
Besides many unfortunate negative experiences with the CA 79 / 99 I would like to share some positive feedback as well.
Most of the time when a product is working great we don't review it and if there are problems they pop up in the forums.
I really feel bad for everybody who has a problem with their digital pianos, especially at this price range, it's so frustrating frown

BUT I also wanted to say my CA 79 PE is working sooooo good and sounds so good, too.
Man I had a CA 98 in the U.S. and now I own a CA 79 and I like the sound much better. I always felt the CA 98 felt "nosy" / "boxy"
The CA 79 has first of all so much power, it sounds really really good on speakers! And on my Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm it sounds really amazing. Hard to believe that one is playing a digital piano with the feel and sound.

Anyways, I wanted to share some love for the new CA 79 series *knock on wood* - I hope it stays this positive for many years, as I only got it for a month.

Wish you all best of luck and happy playing <3

Welcome and thx for the nice post :-).

I would wish more satisfied owners would post (like Amy).

Not only the same old idiots like me wanting to justify that my older digital model is still the better choice and no noticable difference ;-).

Since the new CA59 is out my CA99 EP still feels not THAT outdated and I still likes.

But nobody is interested anymore :-) :-) :-).

Hope my speakers will fall off...to regain sensational interest *face palm*.

But good thing is: This forum is REALLY linked to the manufacturers and together we can move something...

Galuwen

Last edited by Galuwen; 05/20/20 02:35 AM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981460 05/20/20 04:48 AM
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I am only happy that there is no new CA109 yet smile
In the meantime, today I ordered a Dixie Belle.
If CA99 rattles too much - I am covered smile

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2981468 05/20/20 05:25 AM
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You purchased a young Southern woman?
Originally Posted by Parkher
In the meantime, today I ordered a Dixie Belle.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
MacMacMac #2981483 05/20/20 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You purchased a young Southern woman?
Originally Posted by Parkher
In the meantime, today I ordered a Dixie Belle.

+1

:-)

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2981484 05/20/20 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Parkher
I am only happy that there is no new CA109 yet smile
In the meantime, today I ordered a Dixie Belle.
If CA99 rattles too much - I am covered smile


Hello Parkher,

I am listening to the "rattle" recording for and backwards and I am not 100% shure if we speak of the same effect.

Would you say it is the sort of metallic buzzing mid to deep sound pitch? Louder coming out whilst playing ff and fff?

A theory is forming and maybe I can contribute with a high end recording that will surprise.. not of a Shigeru Kawai :-) - sorry - but of a GL10. I will try to do this next week.

If it is that... it sounds to me like the ... we call this in Vienna Piano "schnarren" like rattling of the triple wound strings in the mid to low and register. Also sometimes present if you dampen the strings fast. But then it is more a snaaaarz sound not a buzzing

So much for the sound reproduction cabilities of Onkyo *face palm*. Souns like to good to be true :-).

I am also not 100% conviced that a high end tweeter (CA79 and 99 use different sized tweeters and different midrange speakers 4x round spec for the CA99) can't reproduce a sort of "piano recording" what a sample player and the end of the day is...

Galuwen

Last edited by Galuwen; 05/20/20 06:48 AM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
MacMacMac #2981488 05/20/20 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You purchased a young Southern woman?
Originally Posted by Parkher
In the meantime, today I ordered a Dixie Belle.
A slight typo smile
Is it Dex iBell?
Anyway, Vivo SX7

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2981491 05/20/20 07:09 AM
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Galuwen,
I am still waiting for my CA99, long wait because I chose EP. Or PE.
I listened to that recording and I sort of heard something.
But if it is true what they are saying in that store, that all CA79s and all CA99s have it, and also if it is true that that rattle is absent through headphones - then it is difficult to explain.
If not through headphones - not in samples, especially if with all 4 different pianos.
Also not added during the sound generation because of some modelling.
But then, if both with CA79 and with CA99 - then less likely caused by speakers or their amps.
That is why I suggested trying some other piano through line in.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Galuwen #2981506 05/20/20 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Galuwen
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You purchased a young Southern woman?
Originally Posted by Parkher
In the meantime, today I ordered a Dixie Belle.

+1

:-)
I tried to improve the name of the company, to give a boost to the brand.
Your +1 should go to me smile
And also a cut from their increased profits. You are welcome, Dixie Belle

Last edited by Parkher; 05/20/20 08:15 AM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Galuwen #2981528 05/20/20 08:54 AM
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@ Galuwen
Good to hear you are now fully satisfied and enjoying your CA99.
I do enjoy mine as well (no rattle - but i play mostly on headphones - and very light dull sound only on 2 black keys at the extreme left/bass of the piano). Eventually, what was your issue with the plastic noise that you experienced at the beginning and that was fixed by the technician through grease ? does it mean if we experience the same issue one day, we need to have someone come and open the piano to put grease on the keys ?


Owner of Kawai CA99 EP (May 2020)
Yamaha P-120S (15y ago)
Young Chang E118 accoustic (30y ago ...)
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Ryner #2981545 05/20/20 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryner
Dear all, and @Khavens:

I am having kind of the same issue with my new CA79: the sound is not fully clean! I was already wondering why nobody was writing about it right away, maybe some do not regognize it?

For sure not a screw that’s loose.. that would have been easily localized, the noise comes in my case from both speakers, I hear it clearly (like in your audio examples):
- when I play with that volume you described (it is louder when I turn volume up, but also recognizable with middle volume) and
- playing at least forte/ff, at peaks or more complex parts
- no VT settings can help me so far

It sounds like the speakers can not deal with the range of frequency or dynamic (especially high velocity).. or maybe it is a transistor problem??

I asked about the problem in the music store and they confirmed that ALL instruments, which they installed, have that kind of noise, both CA-79 and CA-99. It is more like a rattle in the lower register and more like a lighter white noise in the upper register.

Some say, well, the sound is so well recorded by Kawai... that it should be like this (!?) because this would come through the highest resolution, but I can not believe that at all (I don't hear it with headphones duh (AKG 712)).
I really hope for a solution, if anybody knows what to do and how to fix it that would be a such a relief!!

It is such a beautiful instrument, but the noise is kind of distracting and it is Kind of holding me already back from playing fortissimo...

i like to thank you for reporting back on these issues, it so important that people looking to buy products know of all the possibilities and not just the good old stories.

reporting a defect is not negative its just reporting the facts.

I almost bought a CA79 a few weeks ago and I still sit on the fence.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2981559 05/20/20 09:42 AM
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Yeah the problem Ryner was describing is the most important one I think, because it might be affecting all of the pianos in new series, we need more information.

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