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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martin Kjeld #2980129 05/16/20 11:34 PM
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@martin, I am having the exact same issue with my CA79. I even went to the dealership and played their ca79 and I’m actually hearing the same noise on their piano as well. It’s louder on the left side, and it comes from the same area your describing. It’s not very loud but now that I’ve heard it, I cannot un-hear it. I spoke with Alan Palmer at Kawai and he is sending some recordings of my piano to engineers in Japan, I’m waiting to hear back but I feel like it’s A defect of some sort, it definitely doesn’t sound “clean“ like I would expect for a piano of this quality. I also played a CA 58 at the piano store and it did not make the sound I’m hearing out of my 79. I have 15 days left to decide whether I will be keeping my piano so I’m hoping I hear something back soon. Has anyone else been experiencing the same thing with Their ca79?

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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980135 05/17/20 12:25 AM
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I just started playing my CA79 today and so far, I haven’t heard a rattle. Has a recording of this been posted so we can compare?

I also tested each key multiple times for the .. hm, tacky? Plastic? .. sound that some people were having wish some keys. No trouble here so far, thankfully!


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980140 05/17/20 01:14 AM
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Try these links to hear the sound we are talking about. Sorry for the quality, I recorded it with my phone. The sound is faint, I would almost describe it as a stereo type buzz.

Sound 1

Ca79 noise

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Khavens #2980153 05/17/20 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Khavens
@martin, I am having the exact same issue with my CA79. I even went to the dealership and played their ca79 and I’m actually hearing the same noise on their piano as well. It’s louder on the left side, and it comes from the same area your describing. It’s not very loud but now that I’ve heard it, I cannot un-hear it. I spoke with Alan Palmer at Kawai and he is sending some recordings of my piano to engineers in Japan, I’m waiting to hear back but I feel like it’s A defect of some sort, it definitely doesn’t sound “clean“ like I would expect for a piano of this quality. I also played a CA 58 at the piano store and it did not make the sound I’m hearing out of my 79. I have 15 days left to decide whether I will be keeping my piano so I’m hoping I hear something back soon. Has anyone else been experiencing the same thing with Their ca79?

Hi Khavens.
Sorry to hear that you are also experiencing this issue. I agree, once you hear the rattle, you cannot unhear it. And I agree that it does sound like a sort of stereo buzz or distortion.

I tried to record it using my phone as well, and it can be difficult to distinguish it from my microphone's static noise. But I feel that it is at least somewhat audible on video when playing Electric Piano due to the vibrato. It's definitely one of those sounds you would have to hear in real life to understand how annoying it is. See the video below:

Video of Kawai CA79 rattle

I will definitely refer to your forum post, Khavens, to provide an additional example of this issue.

Any chance that Kawai James could comment on this? Have you had other customers who experienced this with the Kawai CA79?

Last edited by Martin Kjeld; 05/17/20 03:36 AM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980159 05/17/20 04:06 AM
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Anybody tried to use Dexibell VIVO SX7 with its Platinum pianos in the loop with CA99?
So that you play on CA99, and the sounds of those Platinum pianos come back to vibrate the sound board of CA99.

This way, we would have not only 3(4) Kawais, but also a Yamaha, a Steinway, a Fazioli, a Bechstein, a Pleyel from 1850, and a Czech made upright with a huge sound board - all in pretty high quality. At least the sizes of those Platinum piano samples are probably not seen in hardware instruments, and plus, some pretty fancy modeling of resonances is applied as well.
You can also tweak those pianos in that box perhaps even more than Kawai pianos in CA99.
They call it T2L (True to Life) Modelling.

This box costs about 800 €, if you divide by 6 quality pianos (and possibly more in the future) - not so much, the price becomes comparable to decent software pianos.
And you can add your own (or somebody else's) instruments in SF2 format as well. Up to 1.5 GB in size. Actually the box comes with a number of already preloaded pianos. And there are more free pianos to download, but those (also free to download) Platinum pianos are much better.
The RAM in that box is 1.5 GB and the user flash memory also 1.5 GB.
When every phone has at least 8 GB of RAM...
Still, probably more than any hardware keyboard.

Unfortunately, in order to switch big pianos you first need to delete the current piano, to load a new piano to the onboard flash memory and then - to the RAM from there. This intermediate step seems really unnecessary.
It is like loading software pianos, even more hassle each time.
Well, perhaps some or all of those Platinum pianos fit into that box two at a time. Not sure.

I think, looping Dexibell VIVO SX7 with CA99 is really worth trying.
Because the sound quality of those Platinum pianos might be on par with the internal Kawais.

BTW, they offer a free app for iOS for Dexibell VIVO SX7 called "XMURE". It converts then your CA99 (in this case) into an arranger miracle. Here's how they rather modestly put it:
"XMURE is a revolution in automatic accompaniment. Arrangers will never be the same again, thanks to our patented, cutting edge technology – Harmony Poly-Fragmentor©, the first algorithm on the planet that can modify audio tracks in real time. This approach does not simulate reality, it is reality."

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
navindra #2980175 05/17/20 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I'm a little, but just wanted to say thanks for sharing, Amy!
There's lots of "air" in that sound - something that I personally rather like. It also helps that the piece is beautifully played. Lovely, well done!
x

Thank you very much! I was also pleasantly surprised by the quality of sound from the CA79 - a joy to play! :-)

Originally Posted by navindra
This sounds amazing. Bravissimo!

Thank you, navindra! :-)

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980186 05/17/20 06:24 AM
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I have also noticed a plastic-y clicking noise when releasing a specific F-key.

Here's a video where it can be heard. First time is at second 3-4.
Video

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980328 05/17/20 12:17 PM
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So, if you open up your piano and fix it, you lose warranty?
It cannot be so, because you can open an acoustic grand any time you want to play.
You only need to remove all the pots with flowers first.
Is it another disadvantage of digital versus acoustic?

Last edited by Parkher; 05/17/20 12:21 PM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2980335 05/17/20 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkher
So, if you open up your piano and fix it, you lose warranty?
It cannot be so, because you can open an acoustic grand any time you want to play.
Is it another disadvantage of a digital versus acoustic?

It's not the same thing at all. Popping the action out of a grand piano and starting to manipulate things (assuming a person who didn't know what they were doing got the action out without breaking a bunch of hammers off in the process) isn't the same as opening the grand piano lid to have the sound propagate into the room differently. One is a service mode and the other is a normal decision the player makes at any time.


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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980344 05/17/20 12:47 PM
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You can access a lot without popping out the action.
Speaking of which - another disadvantage of digital:
In almost any acoustic grand, you can replace the keyboard with a Steinbuhler's keyboard with 7/8 or 15/16 size keys. I mean, swap back and forth any time you want.
But not in a digital.

Last edited by Parkher; 05/17/20 12:50 PM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2980350 05/17/20 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkher
You can access a lot without popping out the action.
Huh?

Quote
Speaking of which - another disadvantage of digital:
In almost any acoustic grand, you can replace the keyboard with a Steinbuhler's keyboard with 7/8 or 15/16 size keys. I mean, swap back and forth any time you want.
But not in a digital.

You realize this option requires an investment of >$10k in the retrofit keyboard alone, and then you need to store it somewhere safely when you've swapped in the other one. Also, grand piano actions are heavy and difficult to handle safely unless you have an action caddy (again, expensive) or very long arms.


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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2980354 05/17/20 01:06 PM
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No.
Originally Posted by Parkher
So, if you open up your piano and fix it, you lose warranty?

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martin Kjeld #2980356 05/17/20 01:12 PM
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@martin Did you hear the Audio samples I posted above? Does this sound like the same issue your having? The sound is amplified/more noticeable when holding the sustain pedal.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Khavens #2980363 05/17/20 01:29 PM
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Boy that almost sounds like peaking / cutting off the amplitude of that speaker. (Sorry; I'm not entirely familiar with these kinds of things). But in the recording, to me, it sounds less like a "rattle" and more like an artifact of the speaker's being unable to handle what is being put through it.


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New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Martinez #2980399 05/17/20 02:14 PM
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Unlikely the speaker is not able to handle it, if it is working properly.
Possibly, the voice coil is touching something when moving.
I had such an issue with a speaker where I was able to unscrew some screws on the speaker itself and to center the voice coil better and then to fasten the screws again.
Or perhaps I moved the magnet slightly. Yes, more likely.
Something like that. It was pretty long ago. But the sound was similar.

Last edited by Parkher; 05/17/20 02:15 PM.
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Parkher #2980423 05/17/20 03:04 PM
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Good call, Parkher. So likely some sort of manufacturing defect of the speakers themselves, I suppose. Or probably just 1 speaker that's used on that side.

I haven't played with any sort of volume yet to determine whether I have this issue or not.


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
kimby #2980429 05/17/20 03:23 PM
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It make the noise regardless of the volume, just more noticeable at higher volume levels

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Khavens #2980444 05/17/20 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Khavens
@martin Did you hear the Audio samples I posted above? Does this sound like the same issue your having? The sound is amplified/more noticeable when holding the sustain pedal.

I heard them, yes. I haven't been around a good pair of headphones today, so it was hard to say for sure based on my phone's speakers. The best way I can describe the rattle that in hearing is this: it sounds like something tiny metallic or plastic is vibrating or touching the speaker. It becomes more audible the higher the volume. I hear it in both the right and left side of the piano, but it's way more prominent in the left side.

I hope to speak to my dealership tomorrow. Will get back to you then.

Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Amy H #2980868 05/18/20 06:32 PM
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Amy, thank you so much for sharing your recital of Bluebird. You play it beautifully. I had not heard this piece before. I downloaded it today. I will never play it as well as you do but I will try anyway.
Regards,
Damien


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Re: Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club
Khavens #2981010 05/19/20 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Khavens
It make the noise regardless of the volume, just more noticeable at higher volume levels

I talked to my dealership today and they reassured me that they would send a technician to look at the issues I had reported (rattle noise and plastic-y noise from a key). They also assured me that I should not worry about ending up with a piano that I wasn't happy with, and that they would replace it or find a different model if that was my wish.

Hopefully, a technician can see to my piano soon, and then I'll hopefully be able to report exactly what the issue is.
@Khavens, have you reached out to your dealer?

Last edited by Martin Kjeld; 05/19/20 04:56 AM.
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