Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai CA79 / CA99 owners club

Ok, let's get into some specifics and stick with just Kawai. Let's also exclude grands because everyone knows grands have better action and more open sound than uprights. Let's pick the base model professional upright series from Kawai, K200.

In your opinion, is the CA79/CA99 better than the K200? If so, please tell me what you are basing this on and whether or not you have tried both in person.

Oh my gosh ...what have we done :-p.

For Gods sake nobody talks about my points here from a technical view point.

*ducks away*

Galuwen (in small letters)

My Kawai CA79 is the best piano in my neighborhood

Whenever I hear professional uprights on the internet they sound unregulated and out of tune, even the ones which claim to have just recently been tuned, which tells me they're just fundamentally inferior to a good grand piano. I wouldn't be able to tell much difference between a new K300 and the decades old oustics at my old school.

So you are basing this on what you have heard on the internet. Wouldn't such an evaluation warrant trying them out in person before coming to such a conclusion. Grands are better than uprights. They have better action because of gravity assist and their sound is more open. No one is arguing that.

I'm honestly not even sure why we are having this discussion. Matter of fact, i thought these discussions were sacrosanct on PW which is why there are separate sections for acoustics and digitals. Why can't DP owners just enjoy their DP without comparing it to an acoustic. I mean why does it even have to be a competition. They both have their usefulness.

I've listed my comparison so there is your answer, in terms of key responsiveness and sound frequencies I'm almost sure CA99 is actually better. But not in other points.

Every Upright sounds a bit like that :-). Except Kawai.

Galuwen

An important consideration for some at least, when comparing an acoustic and digital, is the effect the action has on your finger joints. Others have said this on this forum before, and I actually was skeptical at first, but it may matter for those of use who are older (probably especially beginners) or who have a predisposition for osteoarthritis (look at the hands of your parents).

I had a CA58 (digital), and was getting serious problems with my finger joints; I tried everything to improve it, including medical help, but to no avail. I was about to give up on piano playing (ouch, I really like it), until someone here (SpanishBuddah) mentioned that digital actions are much worse in this respect than acoustic ones. That had never occurred to me. Another post later confirmed this idea to me, and after comparing many pianos, actionwise, I took a chance and bought an acoustic (K300) with silent system. I can confirm that for me this is a night and day difference. Problems are virtually gone (although existing damage does not become better...), no inflammation any more.

Of course most people will not have problems with digital actions, and perhaps this cannot be generalized to a contrast between all digitals and all acoustics (and hybrids), but I think it is something very important to consider if you believe you are in a risk category. I very much wish I had known this before and my first piano would have been an acoustic (or hybrid).

Oh and the sound....., also night and day

Hmm, that's interesting. I'm assuming your comparison is based on having tried both in person in the same setting, preferably side-by-side. I tried the CA79/CA99 and K200/K300 in the same setting on the same day and my impression couldn't be more different. If memory serves me right, the bass notes on even the K200 was more thunderous than the CA79/CA99. To put things into perspective, i went into the showroom ready to purchase a CA79/CA99 but ended up with a K300 instead. I partly agree with you on the key responsiveness. The single-escapement action on uprights is a limitation that takes some getting used to as it can lead to ghost notes. I'm still getting used to that. However, i will still take that any day over the action of the CA79/CA99 because to me, they felt very spongy and less crisp. This is of course subjective.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't expect you to agree with mine. It's nice to see different points of view . I think this is why it's important for potential buyers to actually try it in person before buying and not rely on what someone is saying on the internet including moi.

Really? That's pretty interesting
What can be the reason for that? I mean mechanically or anatomically. Did it take more effort to play the digital?

I found and read this post by CyberGene explaining it
Now I think I understand it better. He goes to say that we always have to hold all the weight in a digital, even at the bottom.
Or maybe that's not all the reason.

I’m glad you found this post useful, however it has been already noted by others, and admitted by me, that I’ve used too strong words to express my opinion and thus created a bit misleading impression that regular digital pianos are “bad” (indeed, that’s a too strong word in the title).

@ major_key_minor
Thanks for your comments and i also went to read the threat you indicated.
I think this thread is not about comparing digital to accoustic indeed so i believe it is best for all of us to come back to the topic (CA79/99 owners club). But in my opinion, discussing digital vs. accoustic is not useless at all in such a forum. After reading your thread i realize we are not in the same situation and don't have the same background, but both of us did change opinion between getting a digital or an accoustic. I am an intermediate/advance player, studied on accoustic for years and don't mistaken me, i love accoustic pianos. Whenever i travel for work, i always stop at the closest Steinway flagship and play (i've been to their flagship in New York, Beijing and Paris) and my dream is still to get a grand Steinway one day.
In my recent purchase, i was just about to buy a 1-year old used-Yamaha YUS1 TA2 (transacoustic - same concept as Kawai Aures).
The reason i went for a digital (CA99) vs. an accoustic is that i believe i am going to move internationally soon again (DP are easier to move) and also because eventually i have to play 80% with headphones.
Having a Kawai Aures or a Yamaha silent/transacoustic (which if you buy new is 2 to 3 times the price of the CA99) to play 80% with headphones would actually be a pity for me.
So I went on with the CA99.

But all of this to say that it is actually relevant to discuss the choice DP vs. accoustic whether for beginners or advanced players because i sincerely believe that today some DPs are better than or can really compete with some accoustic, but of course, depending on your own criteria and objectives.

Personnally i have pleasure playing on my CA99 and i can tell you i have played some used Yamaha U1 accoustic that did not give me as much pleasure. But of course, if you ask me to choose between a new/good Yamaha YUS or a Bechtein and a DP, there is no comparison indeed !

Ask an e-formula 1 driver to compare it with a real engine formula 1 ... not the same but you can have pleasure driving either of them !
I hope we close the topic here and again, i share with you that it is interesting to exchange opinions respectfully (which we both did).
And maybe you are right, in the back of my head i am probably trying to convince myself that i did the right purchase !!!

Your post at least led me to think about the fundamental differences between the actions, and provided a possible mechanical explanation for observation by SpanishBuddah and others. Of course I do not know if this is the explanation, and probably one one knows it, but for me it was plausible enough to take the chance. I am very glad I did, so thanks for your post! I know that not everybody liked that post, but I disagree, to me it was fascinating, and in the end let to a solution that lets me keep on playing the piano.

Indeed I think that CyberGene's explanation is correct. I am not sure what the actual problem could be for your joints: more effort to keep a key down when it is depressed, or perhaps more likely, the fact that the DP key has more mass when it hits the bottom, which then bounces back into your fingers creating a higher impact.

I contributed to this months recital on the forum. I recorded it on the CA79 and then saved it directly to USB, into Audacity to make it a bit louder, and that's it.
Just for anyone that is curious of what the CA79 sounds like directly from the instrument - and listen to me playing one of my favourites :-)

Click to play!

Beautiful playing, it's one of my favorites of all the submissions.

I also tried to blind-listen to the recital pieces, and try to tell if they're digital or acoustic pianos. Other than the VSTs, I find I tend to mistake the Kawai DPs for acoustic pianos more of the time.

Thanks for the dignified response. I had no idea about your background and you are obviously more experienced than i am. This makes your point of view even more interesting .

To me, rather than the comparison between digital and acoustic, the one thing i'm getting from all of this is how subjective sound and feel is. This is why it is so important for potential buyers to try before buying because at the end of the day, you should go with the instrument you like and are happy with and not what someone from the internet thinks you will like.

Enjoy your CA99!

That is so kind of you to say, thank you!

Compared to my Yamaha P-45, the CA79 is amazing! I've not really heard many other Kawai's, but I'll give the submissions a listen and compare the sounds :-)

Very nice . One day, i hope to be as good as you.