2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
75 members (aphexdisklavier, adoser, accordeur, anotherscott, Beowulf, 8ude, 18 invisible), 637 guests, and 449 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Advice for digital piano
#2978868 05/14/20 03:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
U
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
U
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
Probably I'll be mooving out in the next month so I'm looking for a portable digital that allows me to keep practicing. What i need is a slab with good piano voices. By good piano voices i mean something that has a realistic balance beetwen bass and treble, wide dynamic range, and good sampling without loops or stretching notes. I don't care too much about action as long as it is hammer action and reliable, and allows me a correct control over dynamics and voicing when i play it. I've been thinking about roland fp10/30 as it has this supernatural engine that seems to have rich dynamics, and also Kawai es110 as it seems very much oriented towards classical playing, wich is what i play.

But I'll consider any advice.

(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978870 05/14/20 04:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Ubu
good sampling without loops or stretching notes

A few models might still stretch notes. Some manufacturers like Kawai do specifically mention "88 key sampling".

Most digital pianos do still use loops. The initial unlooped sample length may vary from model to model and seems to be one of the differences e.g. on Kawai's various variants of their "Harmonic Imaging".

But can you notice looping or stretching from the sound samples online or by trying out the piano yourself? (Possibly) Does it need to be a deciding factor? (Sure, if you want.)

Rolands of course are nowadays either completely or partially modelled and won't have sample looping.

Long samples with absolutely no looping are rare. There's at least Gewa and Blüthner and possibly some fancy Korgs like the Kronos(?)

Dexibell has "up to 15 second" samples, so any looping kicks in only when the note is already pretty quiet.

And there's of course always the VST route...

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978875 05/14/20 04:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
U
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
U
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
Well, regarding looping i can live with it if is not too obvious. What i don't want is the uauauauauauauaua wave after two seconds of pressing the key

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978889 05/14/20 05:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
Yeah, some DPs have a more static or "drone like" sustain as someone here put it.

My old Casio had kind of a ping-pong loop. My Kawai now has the "static" loop, so probably a very short loop. (And probably a short initial sample as it's the lowest end "Harmonic Imaging".)

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978915 05/14/20 07:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
U
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
U
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
It seems the roland is gonna be my choice

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978922 05/14/20 07:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,107
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,107
Originally Posted by Ubu
Probably I'll be mooving out in the next month so I'm looking for a portable digital that allows me to keep practicing. What i need is a slab with good piano voices. By good piano voices i mean something that has a realistic balance beetwen bass and treble, wide dynamic range, and good sampling without loops or stretching notes. I don't care too much about action as long as it is hammer action and reliable, and allows me a correct control over dynamics and voicing when i play it. I've been thinking about roland fp10/30 as it has this supernatural engine that seems to have rich dynamics, and also Kawai es110 as it seems very much oriented towards classical playing, wich is what i play.

But I'll consider any advice.

First set budget.
Second: compare costs between new models and 1-5 year old used models.
Third: decide if you want to risk a used model for the improvement in action.

ES110 and FP30 are good value for money but you are paying $600 for a beginner piano when a good used deal for $800-$900 will get you a much better piano.
What I can say is that when I looked into pianos, I tried both the Roland FP30 (thought, oh, not bad) but then tried the Kawai ES8. That was the ah, moment: suddenly all the beginner instruments seemed toy like and much less appealing.

In the end, I spent £750 on a used MP7 (1 year old) and was very glad I did. If I'd brought a new FP30 for £650, I'd have £100 extra in my pocket but not be playing an instrument worth twice the FP30 in terms of quality.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978927 05/14/20 08:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,311
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,311
Originally Posted by Ubu
It seems the roland is gonna be my choice
No, please; anything but Roland! grin

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978930 05/14/20 08:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,654
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,654
Roland, Roland, Roland
Though the streams are swollen
Keep them doggies Roland, Rawhide!

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978941 05/14/20 08:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
U
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
U
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
There's something wrong about them?

I'd also look at yamaha if they had something at entry level besides ghs action. I discard casio because their samples are so loopy. Korg has no speakers.

If i want to keep price low there's roland and what else?

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978945 05/14/20 09:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Ubu
Korg has no speakers.

From the "portable" models the B2 (and the predecessor B1) does have. The D1 doesn't. And then there's the "B2 with arranger" i.e. XE20.

Also the SV-2 stage piano has a variant with speakers. And it has Korg's better action. But you are not its target demographic and most of the features would be useless, I suppose.

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978964 05/14/20 09:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
U
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
U
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
I was thinking about D1 specifically. SV2 is too much for my purpose, and B2 I'm afraid is more suitable for casual pop playing than classical.

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2978969 05/14/20 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,186
Roland is looking like a strong candidate for you then.

Dexibell has portable models with 73 and 88 keys, but the action in those is "only" a Fatar TP/100 whatever that then means in practise. It's a hammer action. Maybe not the greatest out there. And Dexibell is an expensive brand with all their "high-tech". The VIVO P7 is about $1900 in USA.

Kawai ES8 was already mentioned and Yamaha has the P515 which is "non-GHS" and similarly priced, probably.

Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2979004 05/14/20 11:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 121
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by Ubu
It seems the roland is gonna be my choice

Roland's sound, i think mostly due to their modeling tends to elicit strong responses from either side. I highly recommend you listen to it in person or a Youtube video that compares it with other DPs in the same setting. I personally don't like the Roland sound at all but that's just my personal opinion. I know some love it. If you happen to be considering the Kawai ES-8, then you should also look at the Yamaha P-515 as it has the NWX action.


Currently: Yamaha P-515 | Kawai K300
Previously: Yamaha DGX-660
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2979020 05/14/20 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
U
Ubu Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
U
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 299
Yes, if i go to the es8 level there it opens a lot of new choices much better than fp line. But if im able to find on the low end something that allows me to practice I'll have all i need.

I have also a little concern about roland sound not been much realistic, probably yamaha and Kawai are better, but to me what matters the most is how the sound behaves. I want something playable, where aI can practice pianos and fortes and highlighting different voices at will.

Re: Advice for digital piano
Doug M. #2979023 05/14/20 12:53 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 597
J
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 597
Originally Posted by Doug M.
ES110 and FP30 are good value for money but you are paying $600 for a beginner piano when a good used deal for $800-$900 will get you a much better piano.

Another thing to keep in mind. After meeting other alleged humans in college, I realized it isn't the case that every such person showers or does their laundry on a regular basis.

From that experience, I've decided never to buy used on high-contact sort of things. IDK what cooties can be caught by used keyboards, but I'm simply not going to tempt it.

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/14/20 12:55 PM.
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2979024 05/14/20 12:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 977
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 977
Honestly, more realistic or not, I do not think ES8 sounds are so good. Currently, the only one I can bear is the SK-5 grand, whereas the flagship one is the SK Concert. So, what holds value as realistic to some may not do to others.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Advice for digital piano
jeffcat #2979028 05/14/20 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,107
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,107
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Doug M.
ES110 and FP30 are good value for money but you are paying $600 for a beginner piano when a good used deal for $800-$900 will get you a much better piano.

Another thing to keep in mind. After meeting other alleged humans in college, I realized it isn't the case that every such person showers or does their laundry on a regular basis.

From that experience, I've decided never to buy used on high-contact sort of things. IDK what cooties can be caught by used keyboards, but I'm simply not going to tempt it.

Much like buying a used car, the trick is to visit the owner, see what they're like, see the place it's been kept and what condition it is in. Obviously bad deals are out there but I like to test these things thoroughly before buying to maximise the chances of a good deal.

I've had two good deals on used Kawai instruments. The first was a fluke because I didn't test it, but I did question the seller who was very straight forward with me. So I trusted him and got lucky. My second used Kawai was thoroughly tested and I had a great afternoon talking with the previous owner who is a lovely chap who spent his life running a horse riding centre.

So far I've had nay problems!


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2979029 05/14/20 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 977
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 977
Also I have done some exercises to develop my hability of playing fast arpeggios along several octaves and I find the noise of ES8 bouncy keyboard very annoying (RD2000 much better in this regard - it reminds me of why I bought it and why I should start using it more often).

I don't know how FP-30's PHA-IV is in this regard but I think it is worth mentioning as every DP will have their shortcomings. Just look at some comments in another thread about Yamaha N1X sound. crazy


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2979030 05/14/20 01:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 325
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 325
p515 has high quality voices + xg voices which are kinda garbage - it's a slab too

Last edited by joemama42O; 05/14/20 01:08 PM.

Finally bought the P515
Re: Advice for digital piano
Ubu #2979035 05/14/20 01:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 312
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by Ubu
... I discard casio because their samples are so loopy.
"their samples are so loopy"? Really? I'm afraid that you've been misinformed. Simply not true.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Is there a term for this?
by TBell - 12/02/20 02:04 PM
Something cheerful, please!
by gooddog - 12/02/20 01:53 PM
Corona Virus Lock Down....
by Duaner - 12/02/20 12:49 PM
My take on upright recording at home
by Keybender - 12/02/20 12:34 PM
1985 Mason and Hamlin BB
by HeathH - 12/02/20 12:06 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,213
Posts3,029,683
Members99,449
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4