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forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
#2978358 05/12/20 05:03 PM
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Hi all,

As an excited new owner of a soon-to-be-delivered CA79, and a long-time owner (but not recent user) of forScore, I have a question.

In getting reacquainted with forScore, I'm noting several options for page turns. There are specialized devices (foot pedals of various sorts) and generic Bluetooth device options.

An "extra" set of foot pedals doesn't seem ideal for a piano. Bluetooth could work. However, I did read that MIDI signals could also be used.

Does anyone use, or know, if some MIDI signal from the Kawai can be used for page turns? Such as the sostenuto pedal, or a particular key or something? Just trying to plan for some options.


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978363 05/12/20 05:17 PM
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I don't know how to interface with For Score. But I've used the piano pedals to turn pages on a PC displaying PDF sheet music.

All I needed was Bomes MIDI Translator for Windows. I configured it to use the una corda pedal to turn pages ... but you could do many more exotic things if you wish. The old version of Bomes is available for free.

But Bomes won't run on Apple, so it won't work with For Score.

Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978367 05/12/20 05:30 PM
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Well that's interesting... what PDF software did you use for sheet music? I'm assuming that the Bomes MIDI Translator turned MIDI signals into a keyboard-like device.

I'm in technology for a day job, so I've got things around for all platforms.


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978378 05/12/20 06:13 PM
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Exactly ...
Originally Posted by kimby
I'm assuming that the Bomes MIDI Translator turned MIDI signals into a keyboard-like device.
That's one of its functions. (But there are lots more.)

Originally Posted by kimby
What PDF software did you use for sheet music?
I use PDF-XChange Viewer. I really like it. Kawai James recommended it years ago. It's far better than Adobe.

But I think most any PDF viewer will do. It only needs to accept the page-down and page-up keystrokes to turn the page.

Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978384 05/12/20 06:19 PM
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forScore has a built in page turner. It requires a Pro subscription ($9.99/year) and a newer iPad which uses facial recognition technology (no home button) but it works brilliantly!

I have mine set to recognize when I twitch my lips to the right (forwards) or to the left (backwards). There is a slider to adjust the sensitivity, as well as a calibration button.

I’ve been using this for months now and just love it. It’s simple, reliable, and doesn’t require a separate device like a foot pedal.

When I showed this feature to my teacher, who also uses forScore, she couldn’t believe it. She asked how I was turning the pages. I laughed and told her it’s magic. smile


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978411 05/12/20 07:01 PM
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[quote[newer iPad which uses facial recognition technology[/quote]
I wonder if there is a similar application for a PC? Everything I see might be limited to logons.

o KeyLemon
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Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978458 05/12/20 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kimby
Does anyone use, or know, if some MIDI signal from the Kawai can be used for page turns? Such as the sostenuto pedal, or a particular key or something? Just trying to plan for some options.

I don't have the forScore app, however assuming it can be configured to turn pages using MIDI CC# numbers, it should be possible to connect to the CA79 via Bluetooth MIDI, then define the soft/sostenuto pedals as back/forward.

Of course, this would also mean that the pages would turn whenever you're required to press those pedals when playing a piece.

Kawai's "PiaBookPlayer" app (to show lesson song scores) allows pages to be turned by double-tapping the soft or sostenuto pedal. I expect this option may be available in forScore also.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978570 05/13/20 08:54 AM
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The forScore face gestures sound like a great idea, but I can’t seem to get it to work right. It ends up turning pages when I don’t want them to, and not turning them when I want them to. Maybe I need to do some further calibration and practice.

Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2978631 05/13/20 11:28 AM
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Well you both give me hope for the situation. And now I'm torn again... I have 2 iPads which I can use with forScore for dual page display. I'd need a MIDI action for page turns, which I understand from you guys should be easy to set up.

But a larger PC display (heck I can even get a 21" touchscreen monitor for not that much, paired with a NUC or other laptop) and this software that TripleMac mentions is also attractive since everything is in PDF format anyway! A PC+monitor is much less expensive than an iPad!

Thanks everyone... I'll try some options and let you know how it goes! Once the CA79 gets here... soon... veerry soon!


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
hlm3 #2979009 05/14/20 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hlm3
The forScore face gestures sound like a great idea, but I can’t seem to get it to work right. It ends up turning pages when I don’t want them to, and not turning them when I want them to. Maybe I need to do some further calibration and practice.

Have you tried resetting the calibration button and adjusting the sensitivity slider? If you play with it a while you should be able to dial it in so that it works extremely well.

PM me if you have any questions and I’ll try and help if I can.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2979021 05/14/20 01:48 PM
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In another thread, I saw mention of a software I used long ago and forgot about - MobileSheets and MobileSheets Pro. It is kind of like forScore, but runs on Android and Windows.

So I will experiment with both ecosystems:

  • forScore + Apple products; Bluetooth page turner vs MIDI page turn signal; 2 iPads for left/right page viewing. (I have older iPads so no face gestures are available)
  • MobileSheets for Windows 10 on a laptop or large-format (21") touchscreen monitor; Bluetooth page turner vs MIDI page turn signal using the "Bomes MIDI Translator" software TripleMac mentioned.


Aesthetic is also important... so evaluating which solution will have the fewest wires running to and fro will be important. Since my iPads are older, I will want to have them plugged in during use. I have even looked into charging stands at this point just to see what is available.

On the other hand, monitors aren't designed to rest on a music desk, so weight (or weight distribution) could be an issue for stability or usability. And what works will vary on various models of DPs depending on their music desk or height, etc.

Bonus for those people of means! I saw a suggestion in another thread for one of these large-format E-Ink tablets which run Android - search online for BOOX Max3 13.3 inch E-Reader. It runs Android 9, and should probably run MobileSheets/MobileSheets Pro. At a steep $850/per (and, in my ideal world, I'd have one for the left and one for the right pages), it's out of my reach for the time being. I guess I could win the lottery...?? smile


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2979038 05/14/20 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kimby
In another thread, I saw mention of a software I used long ago and forgot about - MobileSheets and MobileSheets Pro. It is kind of like forScore, but runs on Android and Windows.

So I will experiment with both ecosystems:

  • forScore + Apple products; Bluetooth page turner vs MIDI page turn signal; 2 iPads for left/right page viewing. (I have older iPads so no face gestures are available)
  • MobileSheets for Windows 10 on a laptop or large-format (21") touchscreen monitor; Bluetooth page turner vs MIDI page turn signal using the "Bomes MIDI Translator" software TripleMac mentioned.


Aesthetic is also important... so evaluating which solution will have the fewest wires running to and fro will be important. Since my iPads are older, I will want to have them plugged in during use. I have even looked into charging stands at this point just to see what is available.

On the other hand, monitors aren't designed to rest on a music desk, so weight (or weight distribution) could be an issue for stability or usability. And what works will vary on various models of DPs depending on their music desk or height, etc.

Bonus for those people of means! I saw a suggestion in another thread for one of these large-format E-Ink tablets which run Android - search online for BOOX Max3 13.3 inch E-Reader. It runs Android 9, and should probably run MobileSheets/MobileSheets Pro. At a steep $850/per (and, in my ideal world, I'd have one for the left and one for the right pages), it's out of my reach for the time being. I guess I could win the lottery...?? smile

There is also Musicreader.net software to try out. Runs on Windows 10, Android, Chromebook, IOS too. You should add it to your list to at least try out.

Also there is https://powermusicsoftware.com/ which is on sale at the moment for not much money. You can demo that one also.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
EPW #2979080 05/14/20 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by EPW
There is also Musicreader.net software to try out. Runs on Windows 10, Android, Chromebook, IOS too. You should add it to your list to at least try out.

Also there is https://powermusicsoftware.com/ which is on sale at the moment for not much money. You can demo that one also.

Wow EPW, those are interesting options!!

The Musicreader.net site isn't the greatest, but with specialized software I've learned not to judge the book by its cover! smile It seems much more flexible than any of these others, in that there is an online library that synchronizes between the different devices you might be using. So the library can follow you around, it looks like.

PowerMusic seems to be not as flexible as the others, nor as modern looking (probably using an older .Net or MFC library). But function is what we're after! It seems much more useful for specific use cases, like combining a score with a chord chart for example. I can see that being useful.

I'm very curious to try MusicReader especially.

Thanks for the suggestions!


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
JJHLH #2979124 05/14/20 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by hlm3
The forScore face gestures sound like a great idea, but I can’t seem to get it to work right. It ends up turning pages when I don’t want them to, and not turning them when I want them to. Maybe I need to do some further calibration and practice.

Have you tried resetting the calibration button and adjusting the sensitivity slider? If you play with it a while you should be able to dial it in so that it works extremely well.

PM me if you have any questions and I’ll try and help if I can.

Thanks for the offer! I'll fiddle with it a bit more and see if I can make some progress. I'm loving forScore with two 12.9" iPad pros. The dual page view/turning is very seamless.

Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2979125 05/14/20 06:40 PM
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Yep. Musicreader took a long time to come out from what was called version 4. Yes the program website is not the best I have to agree from a wow standpoint. But the inner working of the program has been reliable for me. I also have MobileSheeps windows version too just in case. I always liked Musicreader for the way it handles two pages on a monitor. I have very bad eyesight.

I have been able to send music using a unique email that Musicreader gives each user for my account for syncing. Has worked really well. I used my phone with Microsoft Lens to make a PDF of some church music I was missing. Sent it off to my special email address and it was up on my account to sync. When I got home I opened Musicreader on my desktop and shortly after my music was there to add to a new playlist for church. I volunteer as extra keyboard player.

Musicreader is developed in the Netherlands and this new version they have relied on a lot of little videos just showing you how to operate the program. Don't be put off by that. Marco, the lead developer has been working on this software for over 15 years. English is not the companies native language but I never had a problem communicating with the company. I was on the Beta testing team for this version. I was accepted when the program was in later stage of development but still found a few minor bugs and also wanted something added. He asked why I needed what I wanted, I explained in detail why I could use what I wanted with my poor eyesight and a few days later he had a prototype for me to try.

Not trying to convince you which way to go as we all have different needs but I have been impressed by the company after all these years. YMMV smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
kimby #2979345 05/15/20 09:47 AM
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Have you considered using a traditional automatic page turner?

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Re: forScore, page turns, MIDI, Kawai DP
EPW #2979352 05/15/20 10:03 AM
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Well they certainly sound impressive and responsive! Sounds like they spend their time on development (where it counts) instead of marketing and a slick website! I will definitely give it a try. I do like the sync aspect, which is something the others seem to be lacking.

@TripleMac - that page automatic page turner is a bit out of my prince range!! smile


Previous long-time owner of a Yahama P-120 (and love it) - now has new life with a student
Brand new owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)

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