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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974659 05/04/20 03:48 AM
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You can't really assess robustness by playing new or almost new digital pianos in a music store.

Historically Yamaha at some point had some lube problem(?) in their actions and they were replaced under warranty. That problem developed slowly.

Historically at some point Roland had plastic+metal hammers where a weak point in the plastic used to crack separating the hammer weight and the hammer shank from each other. That problem developed slowly.

The only thing that broke in my Casio Privia was the sustain pedal. It was a plastic construction and a "ton of epoxy" took care of that issue.

Action noises are a separate issues then: nothing actually breaks but just wears. People have complained e.g. of old Clavinovas where the felt strips compress and/or deteriorate resulting in a clunky action. Maybe some also complained about the Roland PHA-3 action becoming noisy(?) Some have also reported of Casios getting noisy over time. And maybe Fatars(?)

Yamaha's "Action Effect" (AE) keybed from the 80's might be quite durable. Has anyone ever seen a Yamaha KX-88 with a broken key? 😉

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974661 05/04/20 04:00 AM
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I don't know what a "living hinge" is, but my experience with Yamaha's GH action tells me it's quite indestructible. But I don't live in extreme cold or things like that.

After almost 10 years it's still like new, never had a single problem.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
U3piano #2974668 05/04/20 04:59 AM
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Perhaps that's because the GH action doesn't have the living hinge. The latter appears in the GHS action.
Originally Posted by U3piano
I don't know what a "living hinge" is, but my experience with Yamaha's GH action tells me it's quite indestructible. But I don't live in extreme cold or things like that.

After almost 10 years it's still like new, never had a single problem.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974670 05/04/20 05:14 AM
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Yamaha used to have problems with their oldest GH-actions. I guess GH-actions went through internal revisions since that problem was fixed in later instruments with GH-actions and that’s the last time I’ve heard of any mass problem with Yamaha actions. Taking in mind they are also the most popular digital pianos, it probably speaks about their reliability.


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974681 05/04/20 06:05 AM
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I've been using my Yamaha S90ES (BH action) for ages without any complaint.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974701 05/04/20 08:24 AM
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GH actions could be quite long lived, but as CyberGene mentioned, they did have a reputation for developing broken keys after a few years (there was a plastic stabilizing tab near the hinge that very frequently snapped off, and all the Yamaha techs knew exactly what to look for and what the cause was).


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974731 05/04/20 10:17 AM
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Guys, GH is very different from GHS, GHS is the problematic one.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974734 05/04/20 10:21 AM
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Very different. GHS is toy-like in feel, and toy-like in construction.
That's fine if you want something cheap.
But there's so much enthusiasm here for digitals that feel like a grand. The GHS is not a contender.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974752 05/04/20 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Guys, GH is very different from GHS, GHS is the problematic one.

Well, what we're saying is that GH, though considered superior to GHS in nearly every way, has (historically) had its share of long-term durability issues too. And since the OP was an open-ended question (not just limited to GHS), it seems on-topic to discuss GH as well.


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
Gombessa #2974758 05/04/20 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Guys, GH is very different from GHS, GHS is the problematic one.

Well, what we're saying is that GH, though considered superior to GHS in nearly every way, has (historically) had its share of long-term durability issues too. And since the OP was an open-ended question (not just limited to GHS), it seems on-topic to discuss GH as well.

Paradoxically, I would think any of the low end actions in Yamaha, Roland, Kawai etc will probably be the most reliable.
My logic for this is that more of those units are shipped. The market for beginner digital pianos (portable) is probably the largest slice. If they had to constantly spend money repairing cheap actions under warranty, they'd be quickly out of pocket.

Bet you the Roland PHAIV standard and the Kawai RHC will be up there with the GH and GHS actions.


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
MacMacMac #2974772 05/04/20 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Very different. GHS is toy-like in feel, and toy-like in construction.
That's fine if you want something cheap.
But there's so much enthusiasm here for digitals that feel like a grand. The GHS is not a contender.

I'm actually not a huge fan of the concept of Grand-Feel.

If you think about it. A piano key's feel, "is what it is", based on the limitations of having to physically activate a hammer.

We're only buying the Musical output, and the means to EXPRESS that music.

So, it's some what illogical to pursue Equivalence with a mechanical device. <devoid of its original function>

If anything, A digital piano key system should be made completely different than Grand-Feel. It should be easier, lighter, and more controllable by the user, because we no longer have the original limitations.

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/04/20 12:02 PM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
Gombessa #2974787 05/04/20 12:54 PM
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The problems with the GH action seem to have originated in the early 2000s.
There was discussion here about 10 or 12 years ago in which the culprit was deemed to be improper lubrication.

During maintenance the wrong lubricant was used on the keys. It damaged and weakened the plastic.
And the lubrication was placed in the wrong place ... on the rear pivot area, which never needs lube at all.

From what I've read the problem was discovered long ago, and Yamaha advised against improper lubrication.
Problem solved.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Well, what we're saying is that GH, though considered superior to GHS in nearly every way, has (historically) had its share of long-term durability issues too. And since the OP was an open-ended question (not just limited to GHS), it seems on-topic to discuss GH as well.

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