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Most Durable Keybed ??
#2973980 05/02/20 08:46 AM
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Sup y'all.

Looking to get into midi recordin' mixn'.

Which brand makes the most durable key-bed? I looked at many of the repair videos of different manufacturers, they all look quite flimsy. For example, the Yamaha GHS keys are attached via a plastic living hinge. That's just asking for trouble, since plastic can get very brittle if exposed to cold, or just through aging as the plasticizers run overtime.

The Korg mechanism seems to have a plastic butt at the top wedged against a fence, and looks to be the point of failure where the flanges crack and break off.

The Roland looks similar to the Korg.

What do y'all recommend in terms of durability. I'm not particular about the feel/sound since I will be connected up to vst. Are there good piano vsts that's cheaper than keyscape, if not, I'm just going to get keyscape.

I am also interested in the merit of different sensors. Roland seems to have 3 spot reads, most of the others have 2. Is the 3 spots any good ? Does that not merely add to the debounce/ latency of the keypress. Do any keybeds use mechanical or optical switches in the <$1000 range ?

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/02/20 08:51 AM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974017 05/02/20 10:57 AM
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3 sensors allows repeating notes faster, without having to push up the key in its whole way. Most of the brands have keyboards with 3 sensors. Not just roland.

About the most durable, hard to say. Yamaha maybe but there's an open question

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
Ubu #2974020 05/02/20 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ubu
3 sensors allows repeating notes faster, without having to push up the key in its whole way. Most of the brands have keyboards with 3 sensors. Not just roland.

About the most durable, hard to say. Yamaha maybe but there's an open question

Thx for the explanation ubu.

When you say Yamaha is more durable, are you're referring to their boards that's not GHS.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974035 05/02/20 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Ubu
3 sensors allows repeating notes faster, without having to push up the key in its whole way. Most of the brands have keyboards with 3 sensors. Not just roland.

About the most durable, hard to say. Yamaha maybe but there's an open question

Thx for the explanation ubu.

When you say Yamaha is more durable, are you're referring to their boards that's not GHS.


Durability is a difficult measure: we have no 'which guide' to digital pianos; there is no Top Ivory magazine with TV series hosted by Rick Wakeman, Elton John and Lang Lang.
Also, on what basis do you measure?
I'm sure the companies test their actions to destruction using machines, but I suspect these figures are not available or verifiable.

There are a few things which objectively can be measured if you wish to take some actions apart and test them:
1) Physical characteristics of the materials used
2) Calculation of forces being applied to the materials
3) Number of moving parts (more parts, more complexity--> usually translates to greater likelihood of mechanical failure.

I'm also not sure I get why you are asking this question?
Do you think that the action durability is really going to be something that will matter commercially to you?
If so, I think the best people to ask will be digital piano technicians who regularly fix these units.
They will have an opinion about the durability and will certainly know the relative frequencies with which they fix various models.

There is a myth that hasn't any objective basis: that Yamaha's manufacturing is somewhat better than competitor products.
I'm not saying one way or the other on this, but only to say that I see no objectivity in the claim whatsoever.

~What we do know about Yamaha is that their distribution networks are the most developed. That has meant historically that their sales figures are higher: more people own cheap Yamaha pianos probably.
What that has to do with them being durable, who knows. Maybe people know the instrument they own and simply have that bias.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/02/20 11:50 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
Doug M. #2974063 05/02/20 12:52 PM
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Well, for yamaha ghs, it's not a robust design, because of the use of the living-hinge. These hinges do well under testing conditions because those conditions are usually warm. However, if someone lives in a northern climate (where i am), it could get quite cold 50-60 in an unused room, or if someone takes the board outside and back into the house, those living joints are ripe for cracking.

I'm asking about the durability because that's the most practical attribute for me.

I'm not really searching for a specific feel, I've played many models at samash, and I don't like one more than the other, I could get used to any feel given time. I've met these russian conservatory girls who came up on absolute trash pianos, and they'll wipe the floor against most well-to-do players. laugh

Ubu recommended yamaha, so i asked if he was refering to GH or GH2/3 models, as GHS is not suitable for all situations.

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/02/20 12:57 PM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974070 05/02/20 01:01 PM
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Russian piano school is a military drill. You play in the harshest possible conditions under stress, malnutrition and abuse from an old grannie who will beat your fingers with a stick if you play wrong notes. All Bulgarian teachers have borrowed this method in its entirety.


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
CyberGene #2974072 05/02/20 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Russian piano school is a military drill. You play in the harshest possible conditions under stress, malnutrition and abuse from an old grannie who will beat your fingers with a stick if you play wrong notes. All Bulgarian teachers have borrowed this method in its entirety.

Also, I heard many of these piano girls are actually cross-educated from the russian Spy-school. The situation provides the perfect cover, demure svelte figure playing piano, just waiting for a rich american business man to rescue them, then Bam, Missile codes lost.

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/02/20 01:09 PM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
CyberGene #2974075 05/02/20 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Russian piano school is a military drill. You play in the harshest possible conditions under stress, malnutrition and abuse from an old grannie who will beat your fingers with a stick if you play wrong notes. All Bulgarian teachers have borrowed this method in its entirety.

I wouldn’t mind enduring that for a while if I could actually play at the end of it! 😂


Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974079 05/02/20 01:18 PM
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New Russia scandal approaches! Lola Astanova is a spy! smile
Originally Posted by jeffcat
I heard many of these piano girls are actually cross-educated from the russian Spy-school. The situation provides the perfect cover, demure svelte figure playing piano, just waiting for a rich american business man to rescue them, then Bam, Missile codes lost.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
MacMacMac #2974083 05/02/20 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
New Russia scandal approaches! Lola Astanova is a spy! smile

She is held back greatly by having to maintain her appearance while playing.

She can't quite get into the music as deeply when she has to suck it her gut and pose her legs in crazy high heels. The heels also pushes her really far away from the piano so she can't use her weight. That's why you see her rocking forward and back so hard, because she's using momentum instead of weight.

Vs if watch lanlan play, he visually goes pardon the term <full retard>

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/02/20 01:29 PM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
Doug M. #2974135 05/02/20 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Durability is a difficult measure: we have no 'which guide' to digital pianos; there is no Top Ivory magazine with TV series hosted by Rick Wakeman, Elton John and Lang Lang.

Somebody please make that show happen!

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
Alex C #2974164 05/02/20 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex C
Somebody please make that show happen!

Sooo, Alex, on-topic, durability of keybeds ? who does it better ?

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974181 05/02/20 06:03 PM
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Ghs used to be fragile, but Yamaha fixed that. Interesting thinking about the cold wather aspects of plastic flexibility . . .


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
peterws #2974245 05/02/20 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
Ghs used to be fragile, but Yamaha fixed that. Interesting thinking about the cold wather aspects of plastic flexibility . . .

I don't think GHS is fixable, living hinges wear out and die over time, plastic embrittles even if you don't use it. I think maybe you guys don't grasp what a living hinge is, it's those flap hinges on ketchup bottle caps. That cap lasts quite a while if you store ketchup outside, but in the refrigerator it dies fast.

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/02/20 08:58 PM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974260 05/02/20 10:00 PM
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Yes, I never liked the GHS action. The feel is poor, and the construction is suspect.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
MacMacMac #2974516 05/03/20 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, I never liked the GHS action. The feel is poor, and the construction is suspect.

What do you recommend mac for durability

Last edited by jeffcat; 05/03/20 04:07 PM.
Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974525 05/03/20 04:29 PM
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What about the Balanced Hammers on Yamaha Synths? Like the motif, etc.


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974530 05/03/20 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by peterws
Ghs used to be fragile, but Yamaha fixed that. Interesting thinking about the cold wather aspects of plastic flexibility . . .

I don't think GHS is fixable, living hinges wear out and die over time, plastic embrittles even if you don't use it. I think maybe you guys don't grasp what a living hinge is, it's those flap hinges on ketchup bottle caps. That cap lasts quite a while if you store ketchup outside, but in the refrigerator it dies fast.

Actually you can buy the plastic keys including cantilever pivot very cheaply in groups of 5 or 6 for about £5 when I last looked (a good few years ago) and I believe they're easy to fit.
I still wouldn't care to do it . . .


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Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974644 05/04/20 01:35 AM
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Well, are there reports of GHS keys falling off?

A similar "living hinge" is used in some other actions too.

Re: Most Durable Keybed ??
jeffcat #2974657 05/04/20 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Ubu recommended yamaha, so i asked if he was refering to GH or GH2/3 models, as GHS is not suitable for all situations.

Hi. Just to make it clear i didn't exactly mean to recommend yamaha. I was pointing the reputation yamaha has as building solid products and having good quality control. There's also lots of happy folks out there with years using products of other makers without problem. Maybe you can go to the music store and test the products yourself and feel wich ones have the feeling of being more robust.

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