Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Why double sharps ?

Sure it's a problem if they have old scores and don't want to pay to have them put into notation software. And the year well it would of been much, much later with notation software became into common use maybe 1980's?

Even more fun are triple ones :

In any case, it should not be a problem. Not knowing what the double-sharp sign means is like learning only the "easy" letters of the alphabet.

I dont see that your previous comments are particularly simple and easy to understand. So i dont think you are well placed to give ratings on others people comments. That said i am not interested to get into an argument. If you dont like my comments you are free to skip them.

You're talking about m.29 etc I suppose.
The piece is there in g# minor (already mentioned above).
The scale of g# minor is

g# a# b c# d# e# fx (fx = f##)

So all the letters are in use, as it should - every scale uses each letter exactly once (with some sharps/flats). And each letter has its own line

You can't just use g instead of fx because the g line is already in use for the g#

Similarly you can't use the f line for the e# because the f line is already in use for the fx

If you were to use these lines double (eg the g line for both the fx and the g#) , you would end up with an even bigger mess

Nobody really answered this it seems.

But yes, a piece modulates when there appears an accidental that is not 'native' to the current scale for more than just one or two measures (exactly how long it takes to really modulate versus to have some in-between coloring is a matter of taste). So when a fx appears for a few measures, it can not be in E major anymore because E major does not have a fx. The most likely candidate here is g minor because Bach knows how to properly use key signatures and he does not change the key signature (it stays 4 sharps). Also all the notes fit into g minor

Excellent answer.

It should also be stressed that music does not modulate to a particular type of minor scale (harmonic minor, vs. melodic or natural minor). The scale type (natural, harmonic, melodic) remains fluid, at the composer's discretion. It can modulate to the key of G# minor.

One also encounters confusion between key and scales, and I've even seen "teaching" (tutorials) out there that use the two words interchangeably. Something to watch out for.

Well if you think double sharps are tricky, how about this F triple sharp (F#x) from the third movement of Alkan's Concerto op.39 no.10...?

http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/galleries/2973640.html#Post2973640

!

Why are they used then?

Whatever the key signature, these would be so confusing to read. A D-triple flat on the score has you physically playing a B, while the D-triple sharp has you playing an F. Would the mind not be confused by the discrepancy between what you see (know) and what you play, or can one get used to reading such accidentals just as one can get used to reading double sharps and double flats?

The occurrence would be so rare that it might not be worth the effort but I am sure that I would consistently play "wrong" notes until I really got to know well the score in which these were contained.

Regards,

For those interested in the best explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkeVfJ9VYKg

Actually just found out that a triple sharp has a distinctive sign. If you suddenly think of a very complicated composition, be careful not to write a triple sharp too close to a sustain pedal up sign, which could be confusing.



Never saw a triple sharp in a score, but Roslavets already used triple flats : https://youtu.be/YH6xT6rmSD4?t=488

I think it works in the right context. The context for a triple flat would be something with a lot of double flats to start with. The triple flat then should read as a 'extra flat' within the context.

That's why I said that the notation is not entirely logical, in the context of double flats, a single flat should suffice, they should 'add up' instead of override. For override we already have the neutral sign.