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Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
#2969281 04/20/20 02:45 PM
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Hello! This is my first post to the forum.

I've been playing classical piano for 8 months now and about to finish my first book F. Beyer op 101. I am currently practicing with Casio PX-S1000 but i would like to get a better instrument. The sound is very nice with headphones but i would like to have a more high quality action.

I went to music shop for the first time to test digital pianos, here is my honest beginner impression:
- NU1: Felt bit like a piano for children, short key travel and light action. Sound with headphones was nothing special. Noisy action. Cheap as it was used.
- N1X: Sounded bit dull, really light to play and didn't feel worth the price at all. Before trying i assumed that it must truely a great piano but after playing it felt just ok.
- CLP-665GP: Was ok but not impressing
- CLP-695GP: Best sounds with headphones, best touch
- Roland FP-90, liked the action but unsure about the sound, i might try out LX-706 if i can find one
- Kawai: not tried out any yet

In internet forums everyone is saying that hybrids is way to go and Yamahaha 685/695 have heavy and strange actions. I expected as a beginner that quality hybrid actions have some resistance and heaviness but they felt almost too light which was surprising. Should i just get a hybrid and learn to like it or go with the one i like now (Clavinova CLP or even Roland)? Or is there something wrong with my fingers or ears as im just a beginner? laugh

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969299 04/20/20 03:22 PM
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Jack-

I'm also a beginner, and have the PX-S3000. I'd suggest waiting as long as possible before upgrading, as digital pianos are pieces of technology and the longer you wait the bigger the jump will be when you upgrade. I'm waiting for built-in audio interfaces and MIDI 2.0 to be standardized before considering buying another digital piano or keyboard, which would be for my son to take to college as a music student in the fall of 2021.

That said, if you have the money and want to buy now, you'll have to jump to at least an "intermediate" piano like the Yamaha P515 or Kawai ES8 to get a better action. The Nord Grand and Kawai MP7E share the same Kawai RHIII action as the ES8, and the Yamaha CP88's NW-GH action is similar to the P515's NWX action but without escapement and with a stage-oriented user interface. The Roland RD-2000 and FP90 are also at this "level" of action.

If you don't mind the weight, the Kawai VPC-1 and MP11SE have better actions but weigh considerably more and may be replaced this year or next. In a console piano, the new GF3 action in the Kawai CS79 and 99 seems to be getting very good reviews and is what I'm hoping to upgrade to when it is available in a slab piano. The Roland LX-706 and above are also is in this category, and maybe the Casio Grand Hybrids.

The true hybrid pianos are of course at the next level (for a digital) beyond those. The AvantGrand N1X and the Kawai Novus NV10 both use real grand piano actions, while the NU1X and the Novus NV5 use upright piano actions. I'd not get a hybrid with an upright action unless it was necessary due to space constraints.

In summary:
- next step up would be Yamaha P515 or Kawai ES8 or its successor.
- beyond that the Kawai GF3 console pianos are very good.
- beyond that the Kawai and Yamaha hybrid pianos are the best available in a digital piano.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969304 04/20/20 03:31 PM
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Kawai ES-110 !


Playing professionally since 1975. Style: Straight-ahead jazz. Gear: Kawai ES110 | Mojo 61 | 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano
Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969314 04/20/20 03:44 PM
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Yamaha P-515!

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
Tom Fort #2969315 04/20/20 03:55 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll prehaps wait until Yamaha releases the new Clavinova series this year. I just didn't feel the difference between flagship digital pianos and hybrids. The N1X simply did not feel any better to me or worth the price. I guess i will need to try out some acoustic pianos too to get a better idea what to look for. I would like to get an instrument that i can play with for a longer time and also looks nice so it can be in the living room (spouse says NO for the slabs;)).

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969316 04/20/20 03:56 PM
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Is there something specific bugging you in the PX-S action or is this a case of "people say it's not very good and there are better ones out there"?

That's of course relevant to avoid recommending something that might have the same problems.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
clothearednincompo #2969323 04/20/20 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Is there something specific bugging you in the PX-S action or is this a case of "people say it's not very good and there are better ones out there"?

That's of course relevant to avoid recommending something that might have the same problems.

Casio is quite ok actually, but
- Sounds good with headphones but speakers are not good at all.
- Action is quite ok, however because of short keys it is not easy to play between the black keys for example when i play Plaidy excercises (bit like Hanon).
- When playing faster passages the action feels a bit loose, plastic and not so good, i think more expensive actions feel more sturdy and accurate.
- It would be nice to have something i can keep in the living room (looks nice, spouse accepts)

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969324 04/20/20 04:11 PM
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If it's to be a "middle of the living room" piano and not placed against a wall, the AvantGrand N3X wins based on shape alone, and I would expect a Kawai NV20 at some point to target that form factor. The cost of the N3X is a lot of money to pay for a digital piano, though. Too much by far, in my opinion, for a piece of technology. Sometime soon Yamaha will also have to come out with the N2X, one would think, but that is still intended for placement against a wall.

If you can find a Kawai retailer, try the Kawai CS79, CS99 and Novus NV10 and tell us what you think. Also the VPC-1 is attractive and looks more piano-like than technology-like.

Last edited by Tom Fort; 04/20/20 04:17 PM.
Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
Tom Fort #2969327 04/20/20 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Fort
If it's to be a "middle of the living room" piano and not placed against a wall, the AvantGrand N3X wins based on shape alone, and I would expect a Kawai NV20 at some point to target that form factor. The cost of the N3X is a lot of money to pay for a digital piano, though. Too much by far, in my opinion, for a piece of technology. Sometime soon Yamaha will also have to come out with the N2X, one would think, but that is still intended for placement against a wall.

If you can find a Kawai retailer, try the Kawai CS79, CS99 and Novus NV10 and tell us what you think. Also the VPC-1 is attractive and looks more piano-like than technology-like.
Thanks for the suggestion, the NV10 is a bit too expensive, but i'll try the Kawai CA 99 and if i dont like it i'll prehaps just buy the CLP-685, i think you can get it with glossy finish too to keep the spouse happy:) I tried the Yamaha CLP GP models just because they didnt have regular CLPs to test (they have same action still).

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969328 04/20/20 04:30 PM
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If you don't like the CA99 or the VPC-1, you'll either have a long wait for the "next generation" of actions to come out, or should consider buying an acoustic. Used upright acoustic pianos are pretty affordable if you can help someone pick out a good one for you. Pre-divorce I had access to our Yamaha P22.

I'd also assume there is a little room for negotiation in the price of the NV10. Don't forget to check the "prices paid" thread.

Last edited by Tom Fort; 04/20/20 04:33 PM. Reason: NV10 comment
Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
Tom Fort #2969332 04/20/20 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Fort
If you don't like the CA99 or the VPC-1, you'll either have a long wait for the "next generation" of actions to come out, or should consider buying an acoustic. Used upright acoustic pianos are pretty affordable if you can help someone pick out a good one for you. Pre-divorce I had access to our Yamaha P22.
Thanks, i might try even Kawai NV5 altough i'm a bit sceptical after trying the NU1. Acoustic is out of question because of neighbours.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969335 04/20/20 04:53 PM
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The N1X is what a good acoustic grand piano feels like, so if action is the most important thing, I would buy that.

I really like the action on my Roland FP-90, but I rarely use the piano's internal sounds. The responsiveness is very good, but I can't think of any reason not to buy an N1X other that the price and I couldn't fit it in the room with my acoustic.

I'd love an NV-10, but if it's too expensive and you can manage an N1X I wouldn't think twice about it. I'd be just as happy with either.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
johnstaf #2969338 04/20/20 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The N1X is what a good acoustic grand piano feels like, so if action is the most important thing, I would buy that.

I really like the action on my Roland FP-90, but I rarely use the piano's internal sounds. The responsiveness is very good, but I can't think of any reason not to buy an N1X other that the price and I couldn't fit it in the room with my acoustic.

I'd love an NV-10, but if it's too expensive and you can manage an N1X I wouldn't think twice about it. I'd be just as happy with either.

Do you happen to know what nu1x is like? How they would compare to the newer grand touch with counterweight?

Of course we need to currently waste time with asking for opinions from anyone that might have tried them as all the shops are closed.

Actually I'll try asking in a new thread.

Last edited by Bhav; 04/20/20 04:59 PM.

'Its too rare to break a hand from playing the piano ... But playing Hanon as written will break your hand'

- Self proclaimed 'piano teachers' on the internet.
Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
Bhav #2969341 04/20/20 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhav
Do you happen to know what nu1x is like? How they would compare to the newer grand touch with counterweight?

Of course we need to currently waste time with asking for opinions from anyone that might have tried them as all the shops are closed.

The NU1X isn't for me. It uses an upright action, which some people love. I'd be more inclined to go for the GrandTouch, but that's just me. Many people really like the NU1X.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
johnstaf #2969352 04/20/20 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The N1X is what a good acoustic grand piano feels like, so if action is the most important thing, I would buy that.

I really like the action on my Roland FP-90, but I rarely use the piano's internal sounds. The responsiveness is very good, but I can't think of any reason not to buy an N1X other that the price and I couldn't fit it in the room with my acoustic.

I'd love an NV-10, but if it's too expensive and you can manage an N1X I wouldn't think twice about it. I'd be just as happy with either.
Thanks for your input, i really liked the GrandTouch action, even preferred it over N1X action. It might be something to do with playing bass and guitar with heavy gauge strings, because many of the digital pianos felt just too light including the hybrids. Prehaps lightness is just something i need to get used to.

Last edited by JackFi; 04/20/20 05:25 PM.
Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969355 04/20/20 05:26 PM
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That probably has something to do with it! I have a bass with whatever gauge came on it, and it's certainly a workout for the fingers.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2969449 04/20/20 09:35 PM
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Quote
. . . I guess i will need to try out some acoustic pianos too to get a better idea what to look for.

Yes !

You need to know what the target is, before you judge how closely various DP's approach it.

And you'll find that acoustics differ, one from another. But you'll get a sense of what an acoustic piano sounds like, and feels like.


. Charles
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Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
Charles Cohen #2981110 05/19/20 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Quote
. . . I guess i will need to try out some acoustic pianos too to get a better idea what to look for.

Yes !

You need to know what the target is, before you judge how closely various DP's approach it.

And you'll find that acoustics differ, one from another. But you'll get a sense of what an acoustic piano sounds like, and feels like.
I started finally piano lessons and oh dear the teachers Kawai acoustic upright is Heavy! I think the CLP-685 resembles it actually pretty well and now it actually feels that many of the other DPs are way too light, so i guess i'll buy the 685 then or wait for a couple of months for the successor model.

Re: Good digital piano for beginner for classical music?
JackFi #2981111 05/19/20 11:49 AM
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You see, jeffcat, it never ends!



P.S.

I think I might need some therapy to get rid of this infection/addiction.

Anyone know of any good therapists whom also happen to double as piano players?


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