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#2968780 04/19/20 11:14 AM
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Hello dear pianists,

I'm currently searching for a Piano that has MIDI capabilities that works well with PianoTeq.
Budget must be below 1000 EUR, preferably even way less. Already figured that ROLAND-FP30 isn't my choice because there is no dedicated MIDI out.
I plan to use the piano for 12 months - temporarily - and sell it afterwards.
It should be only be there for practice reasons.

Having a Roland RPU-3 here, would be great if I could use it.

Remembering Yamaha P45 was good, but is there a better alternative right now?
Knowing of Roland A88 MKii, but in doubt if I would like it...

Please share your knowledge smile

Thanks

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 04/19/20 11:15 AM.
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One thing to consider ....

If you are going to sell it after 1 year of use ....

The true COST of it is the difference between what you pay for it and what you sell it for.

So ... something that costs a bit more may be a good choice if it holds its' retail value better than a cheaper choice.

And ....

The Kawai VPC1 is "supposedly" the machine that works best with Pianoteq.

Does it hold its' retail value ?

I have no idea.

Good Luck


Don

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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
ROLAND-FP30 isn't my choice because there is no dedicated MIDI out.

USB should be fine. It has that.

(Or are you worried about some sort of "USB latency"?")

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I thought MIDI-OUT via USB would be sufficient, or even preferrable for Pianoteq, because I saves the MIDI to USB conversion adapter.

Personally I am happy with a Yamaha P45, as very affordable and most likely stable in value.
If your Pedal unit is compatible with the FP30, it would IMO be a viable solution.

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My FP50 has the two midi in-out sockets and needed a Um-1 to facilitate the computer's involvement. This now gets used on my Yamaha P515, though I'm told it shoudn't need it.
FP50 was a good controller reaching 127 without too much effort. For the price of an FP60 you'd maybe get a Kawai VPC-1 which would be better. Maybe the price would fit now?
Update; £929 at Chase Direct. There you are!

Last edited by peterws; 04/19/20 01:04 PM.

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Originally Posted by peterws
My FP50 has the two midi in-out sockets and needed a Um-1 to facilitate the computer's involvement. This now gets used on my Yamaha P515, though I'm told it shoudn't need it.
FP50 was a good controller reaching 127 without too much effort. For the price of an FP60 you'd maybe get a Kawai VPC-1 which would be better. Maybe the price would fit now?
Update; £929 at Chase Direct. There you are!

The VPC-1 is no longer being produced, it would be quite a bit of work to order. What do you think?

Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
ROLAND-FP30 isn't my choice because there is no dedicated MIDI out.

USB should be fine. It has that.

(Or are you worried about some sort of "USB latency"?")


1. Yes. I prefer it over MIDI, because that is what my RME HDSPe AIO accepts.
However, I'm having difficulty believing it would do similarly good.

2. I priorly had the RD-2000, but some personal problem with it. I read the FP-30 has stiff keys. I had a Yamaha P45 for a year, it was okay'ish but not great.

--

And finally, if it doesn't have real MIDI, it should have at least a real line-out. Unlike RD-2000...

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 04/19/20 01:29 PM.
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ahh, that is a differnet situation,
then you need to go for the LACHNIT MK23 Studio from flkeys.at.

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Originally Posted by lophiomys
ahh, that is a differnet situation,
then you need to go for the LACHNIT MK23 Studio from flkeys.at.

Sorry. I need a interim piano for 12 months that sells well at below 1000 eur, preferrably around 500. Not a lachnit.
Thats because I have pre-ordered a Piano and it takes 12 months so that I can get it...

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USB latency vs MIDI is a myth IMHO as long as cable is good, chipsets and drivers on both sides are not garbage, and USB hub is not coonected to multiple devices where interrupts may occur.
Jitter might be an issue caused by interrupts or timing.

Last edited by VladK; 04/19/20 02:09 PM.

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Any competent digital should be perfectly good over MIDI. You can change the velocity curve in Pianoteq to whatever you want.

Where did you hear that the VPC-1 was no longer being made? It's still on sale.

Last edited by johnstaf; 04/19/20 02:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Any competent digital should be perfectly good over MIDI. You can change the velocity curve in Pianoteq to whatever you want.

Where did you hear that the VPC-1 was no longer being made? It's still on sale.

I forgot, but let's ask KawaiJames.
USB Jitter myth? All I know that over MIDI I could feel a vast difference.
Note that it only was different when I used an RME device.

So in conclusion you guys say - pick the FP-30? But what about the claim I did read in the reviews found over the WWW.
Stiff keys? Is that true?

Compared to the P-45, how does it fare?

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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Any competent digital should be perfectly good over MIDI. You can change the velocity curve in Pianoteq to whatever you want.

Where did you hear that the VPC-1 was no longer being made? It's still on sale.

I forgot, but let's ask KawaiJames.
USB Jitter myth? All I know that over MIDI I could feel a vast difference.
Note that it only was different when I used an RME device.

So in conclusion you guys say - pick the FP-30? But what about the claim I did read in the reviews found over the WWW.
Stiff keys? Is that true?

Compared to the P-45, how does it fare?

MIDI card sitting in PCE-e slot is connected directly to PCI bus, and external usb devices are connected to one of USB hubs provided by computer. If the hub you connect to serves more than one device, then yes jitter may easily occur because USB is serial interface, and serving other devices nay interrupt mudi data transmission. USB connection is as good as MIDI if configured properly, and this would require some technical.

Last edited by VladK; 04/19/20 02:48 PM.

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My everyday piano is an FP-30. My sometimes piano is a 19th century acoustic concert grand (with a much heavier touch than is common these days). There is very little transition difficulty going from one to the other. The FP-30 does not feel like the acoustic grand, but using it on a daily basis does not hold me back.

One thing to note: my old keyboard had MIDI out, and that fed into a MOTU converter to yield USB, allowing connection to Pianoteq. The FP-30 has USB, thereby not needing the converter. The old connection has much less latency than the new one. Go figure!

Conclusion: I love my FP-30. It does exactly what I need it to do (albeit with a touch too much latency - not that this is actually a problem, however).


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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
My everyday piano is an FP-30. My sometimes piano is a 19th century acoustic concert grand (with a much heavier touch than is common these days). There is very little transition difficulty going from one to the other. The FP-30 does not feel like the acoustic grand, but using it on a daily basis does not hold me back.

One thing to note: my old keyboard had MIDI out, and that fed into a MOTU converter to yield USB, allowing connection to Pianoteq. The FP-30 has USB, thereby not needing the converter. The old connection has much less latency than the new one. Go figure!

Conclusion: I love my FP-30. It does exactly what I need it to do (albeit with a touch too much latency - not that this is actually a problem, however).


Thanks for this. Guess I settle with a Kawai ES110 or a Yamaha P45... Idk... Opinions?

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
ROLAND-FP30 isn't my choice because there is no dedicated MIDI out.

USB should be fine. It has that.

(Or are you worried about some sort of "USB latency"?")

+1.

If you were planning to control other physical instruments (synths, etc), the lack of "5-pin MIDI" might be an issue.

But if you want to run Pianoteq, the MIDI-over-USB connection should work fine. And as pointed out, it means to don't have to buy a MIDI-to-USB adapter.

If you really want "5-pin MIDI" (In and Out), check out the Casio PX-360 (or a used PX-350). It's got a 3-sensor action, and works fine with Pianoteq.

. . . If you need "continuous half-damper-pedal", the PX-350/360 won't do it.

Other Casio's might be OK, but I've lost track of their model numbers.


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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
ROLAND-FP30 isn't my choice because there is no dedicated MIDI out.

USB should be fine. It has that.

(Or are you worried about some sort of "USB latency"?")

Do you need "continuous half-pedal" for the damper pedal?

I'm not sure if the ES110 has that, and I suspect that the P45 doesn't have it.

. . . Read the specs carefully.


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Hey but can't I get an FP-10 then? I heard it has the same action as FP-30. Since I don't need the speakers...

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Nvm, I will fare with the fp30...

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According to the manufacturer, the Kawai ES110 has dedicated MIDI out and progressive half pedalling. I bought mine when it was first released, specifically to use with Pianoteq for recordings, and couldn't be happier with the combination.


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Cantabile offers free e-book on their site with Windows latency improvement hints, including USB.


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